Also Shoot, are there any other techs you might be interested in before we head off to Guilds? Archery for HA's maybe? Lit can wait probably as can Alpha (although I'm not sure what else we want to do with a GS aside from bulbing Philo, is it still a bit early for a GA?). Do we want anything else?
I assume we're going Monarchy -> Feudalism -> Machinery -> Guilds? Where in there do you want to throw HBR for HA's? (I don't need them thanks to WC, so it's your decision).
(May 30th, 2013, 20:16)WarriorKnight Wrote: Also Shoot, are there any other techs you might be interested in before we head off to Guilds? Archery for HA's maybe? Lit can wait probably as can Alpha (although I'm not sure what else we want to do with a GS aside from bulbing Philo, is it still a bit early for a GA?). Do we want anything else?
I assume we're going Monarchy -> Feudalism -> Machinery -> Guilds? Where in there do you want to throw HBR for HA's? (I don't need them thanks to WC, so it's your decision).
I'd say HBR just early enough to get stables out where we want them before guilds comes in I'd say (so probably after Feud). I'd actually quite like Feud as soon as possible. I've got a couple hills on my border with Seven that it would be nice to throw one longbow onto for vision.
(May 28th, 2013, 21:04)Shoot the Moon Wrote: Question for you: what are your opinions on city locations in my south beyond the clams/cows/dyes/spices spot? I have two possible locations marked out (and a settler already in production for one of them and roads being built toward it). Thoughts on which one? The further east one would need an immediate missionary. How capable would you be of providing that?
How likely are you to get a city NE of the banana? Since defense is a big problem for a site around there, I'll say unlikely. so I'd probably prefer the eastern one. The missionary is perhaps the main problem for the east site, but as explained below, if I send my first missionary to my capital I can probably get a religion in your eastern city t79.
Is this still the plan? Need to know where to move the settler this turn. If we're still on pace to get that missionary do you think you could just move my settler for me (it's 1S of Wrestle Wardrobe) to the city site and end turn for me? Thanks.
Also, what do you think of doing Bumper Sticker as my Moai site? It's only 6 coastal tiles, but then again my highest city is only 7 and that's a contested border site. If you do agree with that feel free to actually switch that build as well before ending my turn. Other consideration though would be whether it is worth waiting for your stone to be hooked up before building it, but considering you'd want your own stone for you own Moai build, I suspect the wait is too long to be worth waiting.
Also, the other nice thing about construction in addition to cats is that I can build a ball court in my capital. Between that and the spices I'm about to hook up I should be able to grow that to size 15 (although I'll need to actually road my rice and deer to increase the health cap as well). Obviously, a size 15 academy capital will be a ripe candidate for bureaucracy once we get CS.
Finally, we lost graphs on Mack7, so I put enough EPs on them to get them back. Reminder to self: check if I should switch that around again next turn.
(June 1st, 2013, 18:57)Shoot the Moon Wrote: Is this still the plan? Need to know where to move the settler this turn. If we're still on pace to get that missionary do you think you could just move my settler for me (it's 1S of Wrestle Wardrobe) to the city site and end turn for me? Thanks.
Yes, the missionary was completed this turn and is still on track to spread to your city t79. Moved the settler as requested.
Are you free today for a chat? I can send you more missionaries if you need the culture, but I'd rather spread it around my empire for the OR bonus if that's not needed. Also the 4h/mack border situations may need some discussion.
(June 1st, 2013, 18:57)Shoot the Moon Wrote: Also, what do you think of doing Bumper Sticker as my Moai site? It's only 6 coastal tiles, but then again my highest city is only 7 and that's a contested border site. If you do agree with that feel free to actually switch that build as well before ending my turn. Other consideration though would be whether it is worth waiting for your stone to be hooked up before building it, but considering you'd want your own stone for you own Moai build, I suspect the wait is too long to be worth waiting.
Actually your highest city is 10, but those extra tiles would be in a culture war with Seven. So I'd agree with building Moai in Bumper Sticker. I don't see myself connecting Stone in the next dozen turns, and your IND anyway, so I'd probably go ahead and build it now. Another reason to build it now is extra culture to reach those furs.
(June 1st, 2013, 18:57)Shoot the Moon Wrote: Also, the other nice thing about construction in addition to cats is that I can build a ball court in my capital. Between that and the spices I'm about to hook up I should be able to grow that to size 15 (although I'll need to actually road my rice and deer to increase the health cap as well). Obviously, a size 15 academy capital will be a ripe candidate for bureaucracy once we get CS.
Agree completely. Don't forget though that I have a spare fish and clams I can give you at any time as well. Also, once I can settle gold city and connect the gold, I'll send the surplus happy to you for an extra +2.
CS should def. be one of the first things we get after Banking. In fact, CS -> Nationalism could be a very powerful play since we have MoM.
(June 1st, 2013, 18:57)Shoot the Moon Wrote: Finally, we lost graphs on Mack7, so I put enough EPs on them to get them back. Reminder to self: check if I should switch that around again next turn.
Yeah, one downside being against ORG civs who build early courthouses; LAM graphs are also being threatened. We can get them back for now by changing focus to them both, but I don't see us holding onto their graphs for much longer until we build some courthouses ourselves.
Finally, I couldn't resist grabbing this pic of Mayan demogs:
I don't really know how we did this, but I'm not complaining. Probably nothing more then a coincidence, although Smack did cancel their gpt gifts with each other.
Yeah, I'm around for a chat if you still are (although I realize it may now be too late).
Actually, aside from the GNP that screenshot is pretty similar to what it's been for the past 5t or so. I've been leading in MFG for a while now and in the 2-3 range for crop yield (2-4 or 5 is all pretty close there for food). For GNP, it's really just because the two that have been ahead of me happen to be on the downside of a spike while I happen to be running full 100% this turn for the first time in a while. Have been pretty consistently 2-3 in GNP before that.
Complete overview coming next turn from both Shoot and myself, but for now here's the chat Shoot and I had:
WKStM
hey hey way to ruin my fun with the demog pick
pic* haha sorry ah well, np actually the fact that only GNP is unusual is probably more encouraging than discouraging I'd hope
consistently #1 MFG and tied for #2 crop yield is pretty good I'd say indeed, although I'm 7th in food and only some 20 food behind you
pop/food has been a very close race this game yeah agreed
four strong teams indeed, although i am happy about how well we've done in the other categories
anyway
ive got a missionary ready to head to your new city
are there any others you want in the near future? one could be useful for my other new city
get dyes and clams in range
and that city has next to no production so getting a culture building itself could be painful (already have to wait for size 4 for the granary two pop whip)
other than that I can probably live without much
the furs city can get culture for your furs from moai
by border clash city with seven is reaching the point where it can just whip a library/monastery sounds good
your fur city has religion in it already anyway oh yeah random spread right? border clash? maybe that could use one at some point
yep yeah probably
I'd say it could use one although not as high of priority as OR for you yeah
other problem is the military situation on my borders
HAK has created another porqupine stack near CellPhoneWearer
i can deal with them with cats eventually although i cant build them that fast
probably just have to be cautious yeah
considering where their cities are it doesn't look like we'd have a huge interest in settling that direction immediately right?
and they aren't really threatening anything so more just a nuisance until we get rid of them with cats I'd say yeah
trying to get the banana improved, but i don't think i can keep it improved safely for some time
as for smack
did you see an archer over there? i saw a sign that said something like that yeah
saw the archer with my scout before getting out of range i see been having some fun cat and mouse games there using the 2 movement, lakes and hills for vision while staying out of range don't think the archer is a huge problem, although i'd hate if I'm racing smack for that spot and the archer is the future garrison
heh honestly wouldn't surprise me
seven's out of room just like I am
at least in our direction toward each other im pretty sure i can get that spot without much trouble wouldn't surprise me if he is feeding settlers to mack like I have to you
yeah it is definitely closer to you
map wise it sort of seems like there won't be a huge contested area there
the two coasts are strong but there seems like a logical border area i can settle t80 at the latest, earlier if macks spear goes somewhere else not like my NW where the map pretty much forces contested sites
yeah I'd say that should be early enough even so, i wouldnt be suprised if they tried to grab more then their fare share
still, we should be alright yeah
I'd be surprised if we don't get our desired sites after securing the north, next is the south yeah
for me it's probably about growing out my cities now i havent seen 4h take any interest across the sea yet
wish i had the time to build a trireme and send is s
yeah, your practically out of room now yeah at least you have lots of vertical growth room with ball courts one backline, but mostly just vertical growth with military builds to secure what I have
especially with colossus I'll even just grow onto coast and tbh i think it would be good if you could help me build settlers to seal out the rest of my lands
the eastern race is just getting started definitely can one backline? theres the tundra site i marked out, and you should probably build a city for the marble and the iron at some point too except for the one catapult I'm quickly getting out I'll just put that stagnated city on more or less permanent settler duty until your all settled
well yeah but those are longer range backfill I'd say
that one you've marked would at least be productive enough to warrant settling in the nearish term well we need iron for knights and marble for, well, lots of stuff
epics and maybe taj at least yeah probably true
iron will be settled with guilds I'm planning
not that we're especially close to either lit or nationalism nat sure
lit could be close if we want to go for it
but do we? meh
national epic for you is the only real use
mabe glib not really, GP percentage modifiers are weaker when you have more of them
maybe if i have marble, but otherwise PHI + Pacifism will do
glib? well smack have aesthetics already
seven is PHI, so even though they probably dont have marble i dont see them not going for it yeah so with lit would you agree not worth it until one of us has a HE qualifying unit? yeah
hmmm, vassalage/barracks/stable gives 7xp to mounted
need another 3 somewhere for HE
way off in the future though yeah
if we're doing a knights war we won't struggle for 10 xp even without vassalage yeah also another reason for me to grow vertically now: more pop to turn quickly into knights i dont know how good knights will end up being, but i think its possible for you to grab a good chunk of korea with them hmm
I mean unless they have pikes or their own knights
the real problem is if that jungle is still there it could slow down an attack well, i doubt theyll have either units
the threat is Lbows if we don't think they'll do much militarily I'd say we should go CS first
eh I'll take knights over lbows unless the cities are on hills
but even then just flank--they can't hurt a large knight stack its far easier for them to tech to LBows then knights
plus HAK has totem poles in every city sorry not flank fork you make a good point about CS though...
we should probably tech feudalism first regardless
you want archery for LBows too? yeah
lbows will make me feel a lot safer
although going CS machinery (which is need for guilds anyway) could also work we need feud too for guilds yeah half the reason i want to go for guilds is banking
for merc/rep combo eh CS is worth more for us probably than banking
if I'm going vertical capital with an academy that's getting funded bureau for our team is a big boost indeed, but so is a rep spealist everywhere in all of our cities yeah how many cities do you have?
ill have at least 7, dont you have 9 soon? 9 next turn off the top of my head so thats roughly 50 beakers from rep alone, to say nothing about about the specialists themselves
although, vertical capital with bureau... yeah bureau is probably worth more beakers regarding my civ, not sure how much it helps you
I've got a 75% modifier in my capital for me, im mobing my capital to my commerce city
moving
eventually anyway makes sense would give me more gold to send your way yeah that's smart we can tech CS right now yes? yup hmmmmmm....................... yeah
if we think guilds gets us land I'd say rush there
otherwise CS and then to banking the other thing to consider is my next gp
im working on a prophet in tshirt launcher, but i think paranoid of ocean will spit out another gp before then hmm its engineer vs scientist there well question also is when do we first want a golden age somewhere? another good question
if we go for guilds, id say not anytime soon yeah because youll want to be whipping kinghts
best time i think is when we're racing for Taj or Liberalism
my initial thoughts with my gp would be either machinery bulb with GE or philo bulb with GS
although with MoM in hand, a GA is another possibility yeah hard to say
a GA for me right after banking for a painless switch into merc, OR and buddhism and to power toward taj might work decently
or a GA for you to get out a bunch of GS's for a lib push could also be strong if we get a GS, i might favor the philo bulb
get the prophet, then use pacifism/caste to get a person for a GA
then either i use it for more gp's, or you use it for the more power play
thats more likely then a engineer, since im probably going to switch into caste t78 or so alright that sounds smart if we get the GE though...
i might be tempted to use him on a GA yeah same hmmm, we don't have to decide what to tech until feud right? i think i can probably get him before we finish that + archery
the gp to decide our plan though
man, this game sure is fun, even if we cant decide what to do yeah
I honestly like team games of civ a lot
it's a fun switch up from the normal stuff indeed
stuff like this wouldnt be possible normally
ill post this chat in our thread sometime today for ded lurker feedback yeah sounds good
I should probably give them some screen shots
as well yeah me too, we havent really done much for them lately
considering they were came expecting dave quality reporting haha
*they came yeah...
...
we do have a pretty good position after all, we successfully did our mids gambit and managed to get MoM somehow too yeah
aside our opening has gone pretty much as we would have drawn it up I'd say
aside from a bit behind in GNP maybe well, early oracle slowed us down there, in fact the micro for oracle was pretty bad imo
but we managed to pull through without problem
Seven has a awesome early teching leader anyway yeah agreed the other 2 teams, i dont know where they are in tech, but we were 2nd to currency
if we want to philo bulb, we need to pick up alpha anyway, perhaps we can see where everyone is then
you want to take the overview screenshots next turn? yeah that'd be my plan alright, ill try to remember to do that myself too
btw, your next city is figure skater
Biggest discussion point was whether or not we should head to CS before Guilds, and we're still not sure about that. It's basically bureau for Shoot's Academy capital (also cheaper then Guilds and gives me Bureau too) vs Knights for getting a chunk out of 4H + mercantilism. Definitely going to get Feudalism + Archery first though. Other point of strategic interest is what to do with my next GP, a Philo bulb is most likely if it's a GS (and probably will be after my next Caste switch let's me run 7 scientists), but still somewhat undecided what to do with it should it be a GE.
Something else I just noticed from civstats, but it looks like mackoti managed to autoraze a city from Commodore. I knew those 2 teams were fighting a lot, but that's the first city capture that I've noticed.
Hey Shoot, I spent the day thinking about Guilds vs CS, and I think I favor CS right now. Both Bureau and Merc will give about the same economic benefits, but the big issue is cost. CS is only 800 beakers base (with 2 prereqs after we get Feud no less) while Machinery + Guilds is 1700, and that's not including banking which is another 700 on top. We do delay Knights and the military advantages we could use with them, but I think we can make that up somewhat while teching to Guilds in Bureau.
The other issue is how fast the benefits appear, CS just requires 1 civic swap from both of us (free for me, you can double switch into OR to lessen the pain). Merc also requires a civic swap, but Grocers/Banks/Knights don't build themselves, so even after getting Guilds we don't get a boost immediately. Also we can probably figure out a way so that you can switch into Merc while in a GA by that stage.
![[Image: T76%20HC.jpg]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15873301/Pitboss%2010/Demogs/T76%20HC.jpg)
Probably nothing more then a coincidence, although Smack did cancel their gpt gifts with each other.
