Strategic Combat in CoM

[Nelphine]

Just realized angels weren't in the list. I'll add them in the morning, since I'd really like to have all the rare summons included.

[Seravy]

Ah, so in that, melee and range are equal strength. Simplistic. Overly simplistic? I would say it is, I don't think there's ever a case (in strategic combat) where ranged is as important as melee. In tactical, you can use ranged to take out weak units, and to soften up strong units so your first strikers can take them out before they fight back. In strategic it's all just raw damage, which makes ranged much weaker. I'd suggest something like ((attack+2*ranged/3)*defense)/4096. But overall, not a huge deal.

The "unit rating" formula is AI only. Strategic combat uses the three component ratings separately as you already know. However the AI uses this formula for both strategic and normal combat, in combat and overland.

The AI does add a *2 multiplier to the ranged part for the defender only in overland situations in the latest versions, which seems to improve its decisions on when to start an attack regarding normal combat. For strategic, this is overestimating the defenders, which is the lesser evil - makes the AI gather stronger stacks than absolutely needed before attacking.
We still haven't decided on strategic combat ranged damage btw - while math says normal combat damage output was in the 40-80% range, that doesn't necessarily mean we want it exactly at 55%, a small boost is acceptable.

Odd. I'm not getting the same number as you with that formula..

Did you round the ratings down to the nearest integer after every operation?

Chaos Spawn - you have to add the 300 for generic gaze attacks, and 900 for multigaze both.
Wraiths - Did you multiply the Life steal bonus with 4 figures?

Adamantium level 4 units are somewhat stronger than I want them to be, but as base units are good and summons are probably good now (need more testing), not much can be done about that (except nerfing the adamant and/or level 4 bonus - don't think we want that). Fortunately this is strategic only - in normal combat, these units still suffer from having either too high figures (weak to armor), too low resistance (weak to all but Life magic), not enough impactful abilities (compared to what summons have), low movement speed, or multiples of these. In particular, Mammoths, hordes are slow, jackals, hordes have low resist and 8 figures, Berserkers have ultra-low resist, etc...
however, my main argument why Adamantium being overpowered as is is still that it can be countered by a common/uncommon Chaos spell.

[zitro1987]

I have adamantium war trolls and war mammoths attacking me everywhere. However, they are beatable to me by using 'possession', sometimes with black prayer combo. The AI goes ahead and tries to kill the possessed war mammoth, resulting in very heavy losses. I'm sure other realms have other tactics ... as long as adamantium unit has reasonably low resistance.

[Nelphine]

So the 3 units I want to still look at:

Chaos Spawn - according to the numbers you gave me, they get 1200 for multigaze on top of the other attacks (as per first post in this thread)
However, I don't have stats to specifically work with - can you post up a calculation as below, that shows each part for attack, so I can make sure I have the right special abilities?

Wraiths: 7 melee, +2 to hit, 6 defense, 8 health, life steal, 4 figures
(7-2)*4*20*1.65 + 4*100 = 1060 attack
4*8*4*(6+4) = 1280 defense
1060*1280/4096 = 331

Doom Bat: 16 melee, doom (ALMOST the same as +3 to hit; I might consider increasing this IF doom bats are rated too low in strategic, because no other unit, aside from rare heroes, will ever get this ability - basically doom is a special modifier that you can use in strategic to say EXACTLY how strong you want doom bats to be), 7 defense, 30 health
(16-2)*1*20*2 = 560 attack
4*30*1*(7+4) = 1320 defense
560*1320/4096 = 180

Also, I added angels to the list. They're decent. 373, above chimera at least, which I think is good. They also have Holy Bonus, so, just like paladins, they are better than they look like since they increase everything with them, probably up to.. high men pikemen?

[Seravy]

Wraiths : these have 10 melee. The calculation is correct but your data is outdated.
Doom Bat : While doom ignores "To Hit" in real combat, that special property isn't included in the calculation, so you're missing the "+2 To Hit" modifier.
Chaos Swamp : If I remember right, this has Poison (+60), Multigaze (+1200), melee 1, thrown/breath (gaze) 4, the other abilities are not in the calculation. That is...I think a total of 1307 attack?

...why is your Angel 2x as strong as mine? I got 165 for it.

[Nelphine]

Ugh, I'm at work now. Don't have my spreadsheet. Can you list out the formula for chaos spawn and angel, and I'll see if I recognize anything? Chaos spawn I probably gave it the wrong abilities. Multigaze, some other gaze (death I think), which is like 1500 attack by itself, plus some inconsequential stuff.

Doombat: so it should be (16-2)*1*20*0.66*2? I'm confused. It isn't listed anywhere as having a bonus to hit, and doom ignores bonus to hit anyway.

Wraiths: oh, they have higher attack than death knights? That's unexpected. But still, that's a 40% increase on attack.. Yeah that matches. OK thanks.

[Seravy]

No, Death Knights are also 10 melee.

Doombat, let's see, attack (16-2)*1*20*1.65*2=924
Defense 30*11*4 = 1320
Total = 297.

Angel, attack (18-2)*1*20*1.65 = 528
Defense 12*27*4 = 1296
Total = 167.

[Nelphine]

With angel my guess is I copy pasted something with a ranged attack.

Doombat: so its getting +2 to hit, and then doubling. Odd. But as I already said doom is basically a custom ability for doombat that's fine.

Thanks for taking the time to clear that up.

Angels then are still too weak, but without adding in excorcise, can't do much about that.

[Catwalk]

I've tried looking without success. What is the updated formula for strategic strength for purposes of deciding whether to attack or not?

[Seravy]

It's "total stack power>=target stack total power" but before that, the following adjustments are made :
-Defender units are calculated as though their "ranged rating" was double
-Nonship stacks of 3-4 units have the total power halved
-Nonship stacks of 1-2 units have the total cut to 1/4.
-Attacking stacks containing a hero have the total power halved
-If attacking on sea, units that can't participate (being transported) don't count in the total for the defender. (the attacking stack can't contain those units)
-Defending stack power is raised to 45 if it would be below unless it's zero

Pre-5.0, it used to be total>=0.75*total enemy, and had no modifier for 4 or less units and being defender. It also didn't use the actual ratings for intercontinental, only a simplified one.