RBP3 [SPOILERS] - Zara of the Ottomans

[ad hoc]

so we would have to do a deal with Krill for Masonry and Writing before getting Maths, any idea what techs Krill has got, i assume he's got the religous techs

[Sockboy]

Turn 050 - State of the Union

I think people were doing updates of the state of their empire at 50 turn intervals in RBP2, and I thought it was a good idea, not sure if people are doing it for this game but we may as well I think.

So for any lurkers out there here's the currect state of the Union. I mean here's a bunch of screenshots.

Firstly our cities. Our capital - Aquilonia. The plains hill start has really been a big bonus for us here I think, we've got lots of production but need to start clearing some of that forest, hopefully into the HG The grassland tiles will either be farmed or cottaged, I think we as a team are a little undecided on the best way forward here. I think we'll farm them to work all the hills in the end, but cottages under Bureaucracy are very tempting.



Our second City - Nemedia. there was a bit of discussion as to whether we should have planted Nemedia one square to West. In the end we planted here mostly to have horses in the first ring, which helped us hook them up faster and also gave us a decent tile to use for the first few turns. Defensively it is also better obviously. It also helped us claim a bit more land in the direction of DIM and it's picked up some riverside tiles (along with the spices). I think we're all pretty happy with how it's turned out. Our happy cap is pretty low at the moment (only size 4 here!) so we've not needed to improve many tiles, but there'a worker improving a plainhill mine to finish next turn (timed with city growth), although I think we'll work the spices for a turn before whipping the granary as it speeds regrowth back to size 3.



Our Glorious Military! Our military is currently the premier military in the world. That's mostly thanks to our tech I think, starting with The Wheel is a free 4000 soldier points. Our two shiny chariots don't hurt either, although they'll mostly be boldly exploring where no chariot has explored before. We lost a couple of warriors early on to animals, which put a crimp in our exploration, so we'll make it up here.



Finally a empire wide view. The path between Nemedia and Aquilonia is a mess of hills and rivers, which makes moving between the two cities quite a long journey. Our next city will be to the SW picking up copper and wheat in the first ring and Stone in the second. Hopefully we can get Masonry from DIM to hook it up, we have a very realistic shot at landing The Hanging Gardens.



Oh and the Demogs - Mostly good news here although this turn our GNP was passed by 5 teams! Note that at least one team has a GNP over 40, I'm assuming they've either hooked up a gold/silver resource of they've hooked furs as I don't think anyone's had Pottery for long enough to build cottages. (I'm pretty sure we were first to Pottery). In terms of production we've always been very strong and for food we've also been up there for most of the game.



Oh and a bonus shot for the team, whilst I was ingame taking these pics I spied this little guy.



Yup, that's Krill's warrior standing on that hill. So we've got contact there at last, which is a bit of a relief in someways and not in others Let's hope this Alphabet deal goes through without too many headaches. We should also find out if Krill's contribution to this tech deal is Alphabet, or if he's ponying up something more. Guys, I think we have a letter to draft.

[WarriorKnight]

Oops, should have read the reports before moving, shouldn't be a problem though... hopefully

Hmmmm, will have to relay the news to them. Hopefully it won't matter too much.

So just to clarify, Krill gets the oracle and takes alphabet, he has to give us writing (or we get it in trade from him) so we can research maths. once we get maths we can then trade that to Krill for Alphabet so we can then trade maths to everyone else.

Krill gets oracle, gives everyone alpha (and the prerequisites) and we go straight to math. We don't know what he will go for as a big tech yet but he will probably clear that up when we meet him.

WRT saving cash, I'm not sure I like it much. It delays us for 5 turns to a library, and if Krill somehow misses the Oracle (unlikely, but possible) we're up the proverbial creek.

Well, according to your C&D, Krill is the only one with priesthood. If Krill misses the Oracle anyway this alliance is in trouble.

I'm wary of anything that could potentially significantly delay us to Maths since it's our only way of getting an increased happy cap.

We are whipping a lot anyway. If Krill doesn't land oracle we are free to him.

Getting to maths earlier doesn't really help us a lot since as you said we've got other things to build ATM, so really we're just helping everyone else, particularly if we need to trade the tier techs around ASAP.

True, but Krill will give us writing instead of us having to research it. This means we will have more gold at the end of maths to spend more 100% research on.

The main bottleneck tech for these trades is math since it leads to several useful techs. Acquiring it ASAP so other people can get to work on the next tier techs is useful to the alliance. That is why we should get it ASAP.

Looking at HG we can get it around 7 turns after Maths is complete. Without too much work, we can also get 3 settlers out in time, although whether the last one has gotten into place and settled in time is very tight (I'm assuming Maths around t74 -> HG t81). Actually the more I think about it the better it is. Ok, I've talked myself round With us needing to settle a fourth city around t62 (I'm assuming silver/sheep) I'm not sure what our research rate will be like, but we should have enough time to get to 6 cities for HG. And it cuts down the competition on THG to whomever we meet before we get mathematics.

Sounds good, although intentionally delaying math is probably going to cause everyone else to be slightly annoyed with us.

The no build clause is a bit more difficult, but perhaps we claim it'll take a turn or two longer than it will, to disrupt the plans of other teams in case they head for it? I think we've got such a good position for the HG that we shouldn't give it up. It might be worth discussing with India though if they have stone they could beat us, we could offer stone/marble (after we've used it) in exchange for a NBC on THG? Or we could just assume that they're not going to go for it and hope?

I think we should wait until around the time we get math before we worry about a NBC. I know, I suggested it.

All this of course depends on us being able to work out something for getting us Masonry before we get Mathematics (at least 4 turns, but preferably ASAP). We might also need to lean on DIM to get the worker for chariot exchange on t70 if possible, we'll need it to chop/whip out a settler from Nemedia.

I will include it in the next message.

EDIT: Crosspost with Sockboy

Krill already? let's see what he'll do.

[WarriorKnight]

OK, here is a start.

Greetings Krill (or is Lord Vetinari appropriate?)

We have noticed a wood1 Corporal Gaskin on our borders. We welcome him to the lands of Greater Hyboria. Did you defeat any injured lions/bears nearby?

We have heard that we are in a tech alliance with you and you are the current primus inter pares. Since the alliance was organized without us included, could you clarify what the conditions of the alliance are to us and who else is involved?

We are currently saving gold for our run to math, after you advised us through DIM to turn off writing. Could you confirm that you are going to give us writing and do you know what everyone is researching?

Regarding meeting India, our turnplayer didn't see the instructions that you gave us, and has moved our chariot SE/SW. We will follow the directions as best we can but might be 1 turn late.

We are sorry about all of these questions upon contact, but given the situation, we hope you understand. We look forward to a long and fruitful relationship with the Egyptian People.

Enough Talking!
WarriorKnight of A4

P.S. Enough Talking is our standard sign off message. See the attached picture.

With picture of course.

EDIT: Sent since we need to ASAP.

[ad hoc]

seems perfect as a message, perhaps say there was one injured bear and one injured wolf in the area just in case he's only met one beastie.

[WarriorKnight]

OK, draft to DIM:

Greetings DIM

Quick Message this time. As we have already mentioned in passing via chat, we have just met Krill.

We haven't talked to Carthage yet, because we would like to see what Krill has to say about the alliance. We will keep you informed on any unit movements they send our way.

Enough Talking!
WarriorKnight of A4

Not much to say, I imagine a group e-mail between all of the members of the tech alliance will cover much of what we have talking about with DIM previously.

And another to Carthage:

Greetings Nice Shot

Quick Message. We have met Krill last turn. He appeared from our W with a warrior.

Enough Talking!
WarriorKnight of A4

We have to say we met Krill because of the agreement we made. Don't know when/if to send this

Probably the best way to ask them to join is via chat, so we could invite them to a chat sometime over the weekend. However we need to wait for Krill's response before we approach them. Hopefully they are patient so we don't take a diplo hit.

[Sockboy]

It's probably worth congratulating Team Nice Shot settling their third city (turn 48 I think) if you're sending them a message. Maybe ask if they want directions to try and meet up also. Maybe mention an EP agreement since we've got all our points on Krill ATM?

I think you should send it now really, there's not much point delaying we'll send them another email once we have a better picture on the tech alliance from Krill.

In Team news we should probably work out the order of the next three cities, Belit will go and check out the pigs site, but I think city 4 should be N of the silver, City 5 at the gold and 6 near the pigs somewhere. This is mostly due to the order in which settlers will be produced over the next 30 turns (Aquilonia first, Nemedia second and Copper City third). Be aware that city 4, which will increase our city maintenance costs, will be settled whilst researching Mathematics which we probably don't want to delay.

We need to sort this out soon as worker B will go and start roading towards city 4 after finishing the current mine & road, so in the next 3 turns or so. (Worker B no longer needs to chop out a library in Nemedia since writing isn't on the horizon).

[Sockboy]

so we would have to do a deal with Krill for Masonry and Writing before getting Maths, any idea what techs Krill has got, i assume he's got the religous techs

I think the idea is that Krill sends everyone Writing and Alphabet for free. (Or maybe for trade coupons... Wait and see here). So I'd guess we get writing on t62 and alphabet on t63. Then since we have alphabet we can trade with any other party (except we can't trade Writing or Alphabet to foreign parties as not tech brokering is on). Presumably we can then receive Masonry in trade on t63 from DIM. But really we need to wait to hear back from Krill to see how this is going to go down.

As far as I can tell he has the following techs:
Agriculture (Starting Tech)
Animal husbandry
Mining
Mysticism
Polytheism
Priesthood
The Wheel (Starting Tech)

So as far as trading material we have... Pottery and Bronze Working. If we need to trade for writing, BW for writing is even, although we've already invested beakers in Writing. Pottery may be more tempting for Krill as less people have it, but is significantly cheaper than Writing.

[WarriorKnight]

OK, reply from Krill.

Greetings to the Empire of Conan

I have slain many lions to reach your lands, precisely two since I have left the lands belonging to the peoples known to others as the Indians, one of them less than half as strong as a truly health lion.

I am happy to clarify the basic rules of the Alliance as I see them: once Alphabet is known to myself, I will trade it to you to trade pottery, and other ancient era techs that you have, to other civs on a list I shall send to you. They shall trade back any ancient era techs that you are lacking. Not all civs will receive Alphabet once it is researched, only those that need to trade techs within the group shall receive it. The rest will receive it once their techs are researched. I've been bitten enough times by RBers who backstab on tech trades.

This obviously precludes any warfare between member nations of the Alliance until this trade is completed, so I fully expect each member nation to be friendly and not aggressive (including aggressive settling and growth) while in the Alliance.

The other teams that are involved as of turn 50 are as follows:

Aztecs - Archery, Meditation

Eygpt - Polytheism, Priesthood, Writing, Alphabet.

India - Masonry

Holy Roman Empire - HBR

Ottomans - Pottery, Maths

Portugal - Sailing
It is hoped that Carthage and Rome will enter the Alliance once full contact has been made, and exploration to this end is being pursued vigorously. Only time remains until contact is made.

I can confirm that I will gift you writing and Alphabet, provided that you confirm that you will gift Maths to me immediately upon the completion of research, and that you will research it at 100% science rate once Writing is gifted to you. The second requirement, which I'm not sure if it has been passed on, is that you spread Hinduism to your cities (I shall gift you a missionary). This is not a requirement to accept Hinduism as the state religion, or to stop you from founding any Holy Cities and shrining them for gold. The missionary should be delivered by turn 90 at the latest.

Here is a new set of instructions for the Chariot of the Ottoman people: SW NW, SW NW (17, 17 for the next 2 turns). After this you can head straight NW to meet Portugal. You will still be in time to meet India.

These questions are more than welcome. As the days move on, and contacts grow, I hope that to set up a large group chat, to help the alliance function somewhat more smoothly than it currently is...

I look forward to working with the Ottomans for a long time. Hopefully both of us can gain from the relationship.

Krill

Lots of info here . He has apparently avenged Red Sonja for us, so that is a good start.

It seems that we have masonry taken care of, even if India is getting it. I would like to clarify that teams like India and Portugal are doing their fare share of beaker counts.

Carthage is still trying to be included, but they will need contacts fast. Don't know about what we say to them.

1st requirement is fine, but we haven't heard about the 2nd (well, only in passing). We will need to clarify what the conditions are here.

And finally the chariot has new directions and it won't be late.

EDIT: Small chat with Krill, the beaker costs for the ancient techs are being overlooked and hindu spread just has to be eventually for the shrine.

[Sockboy]

Well Krill's gotten back to us with the following message...

Greetings to the Empire of Conan

I have slain many lions to reach your lands, precisely two since I have left the lands belonging to the peoples known to others as the Indians, one of them less than half as strong as a truly health lion.

I am happy to clarify the basic rules of the Alliance as I see them: once Alphabet is known to myself, I will trade it to you to trade pottery, and other ancient era techs that you have, to other civs on a list I shall send to you. They shall trade back any ancient era techs that you are lacking. Not all civs will receive Alphabet once it is researched, only those that need to trade techs within the group shall receive it. The rest will receive it once their techs are researched. I've been bitten enough times by RBers who backstab on tech trades.

This obviously precludes any warfare between member nations of the Alliance until this trade is completed, so I fully expect each member nation to be friendly and not aggressive (including aggressive settling and growth) while in the Alliance.

The other teams that are involved as of turn 50 are as follows:
Aztecs - Archery, Meditation
Eygpt - Polytheism, Priesthood, Writing, Alphabet.
India - Masonry
Holy Roman Empire - HBR
Ottomans - Pottery, Maths
Portugal - Sailing
It is hoped that Carthage and Rome will enter the Alliance once full contact has been made, and exploration to this end is being pursued vigorously. Only time remains until contact is made.

I can confirm that I will gift you writing and Alphabet, provided that you confirm that you will gift Maths to me immediately upon the completion of research, and that you will research it at 100% science rate once Writing is gifted to you. The second requirement, which I'm not sure if it has been passed on, is that you spread Hinduism to your cities (I shall gift you a missionary). This is not a requirement to accept Hinduism as the state religion, or to stop you from founding any Holy Cities and shrining them for gold. The missionary should be delivered by turn 90 at the latest.

Here is a new set of instructions for the Chariot of the Ottoman people: SW NW, SW NW (17, 17 for the next 2 turns). After this you can head straight NW to meet Portugal. You will still be in time to meet India.

These questions are more than welcome. As the days move on, and contacts grow, I hope that to set up a large group chat, to help the alliance function somewhat more smoothly than it currently is...

I look forward to working with the Ottomans for a long time. Hopefully both of us can gain from the relationship.

Krill

Hmm, lots to digest there. Sounds like DIM have a slightly different idea of the tech alliance to Krill. My reading suggests that Krill is interested in a large number of teams sharing around the minor techs *only*. Mathematics is *not* an ancient era tech, so I assume it is not included in the share with everyone deal. Krill will also *not* be giving everyone Alphabet, only those he can trade a reasonable value tech for (which includes us for Mathematics). I don't see any problem with his two requirements although we should probably get clarification on how quickly he expects us to spread Hinduism (it would probably make sense to convert eventually if we're spreading it to every city anyway). We should probably ask Krill for a 'no build clause' on The Hanging Gardens since we will be handing him Maths on the turn we research it, I'd be surprised if he reject the deal because of it, and he shouldn't have it all his own way .

We should also offer to hand him directions to Nice Shot and send them a message about this, since Krill seems keen for them to be onboard. The only techs missing from Krills list so far are Fishing, Hunting, Mysticism, Monotheism.

Edit: Ha, crosspost with Wk