[SPOILERS] Team SsS

[scooter]

Good point, did you send a message checking to see what they had to say?

[novice]

I haven't checked your thread in a while (I think you hadn't met Exploit last time I visited) but I see there are some interesting developments. Looks like your playing a good diplo game.

You've probably covered this already, but could you summarize what your cooperation with Exploit consists of and why it is beneficial?

If the large alliance pulls ahead of you in tech, maybe you can march some spraetorians up to the Portuguese border, extort some techs from the alliance, and then march north to enemies unknown instead?

P.S: How fares Novice the intrepid warrior?

[Sandover]

Good point, did you send a message checking to see what they had to say?

No, I've been occupated elsewhere but I'll get to it later tonight or first thing tomorrow morning.

[scooter]

To answer your question novice - basically our goal going into this game was to gain an early ally who we would work with long-term, potentially to the end of the game. We wanted to secure this early, as we somewhat feared a "oh no, it's aggressive Rome, we need to rush!" dogpile. The only two people we met early was Exploit and Dantski - and if you noticed, Exploit wrote back very quickly, got right down to business, and was generally right on the same page as us on the gameplan level. Dantski+Mukha seemed timid and overly-careful with information, and generally just didn't come across as very trustworthy. So that helped us choose Exploit as the person to work with. It's a very mutually beneficial deal:

1. It gives us a secure border, so we can war in one direction and not have to worry about one of our other neighbors piling onto us.
2. It allows Exploit to not have to worry about our spraetorians, especially since vultures are actually worse than axes against spraets (by a little bit at least).
3. We can support each other and coordinate together militarily. Right now it's looking like he may face war with India, and we may be considering war with Portugal, so we can prevent them from supporting each other. In 2 1v1's, we are confident that both of us will win our respective fronts, as well as support each other.

That's the rationale behind the deal, and the alliance is essentially a "game-long" deal. The only situation where we would potentially separate would be if it was the end of the game and we were squaring off for the win, and that's a loooong ways away.

The last thing is working with other civs. We are not at all opposed to working with other civs, and we realize that just the two of us teching along will be not enough - we'll get left behind quickly. So we'll need a few other tech partners, and with 14 other civs, we should be able to secure a few. Tech extortion is not something we've discussed or planned on yet, but I think it's something we would at least consider if we were starting to feel "locked out" of techs.

[Sandover]

I didn't read scooter's post before writing this, so some stuff is probably the same as he said.

You've probably covered this already, but could you summarize what your cooperation with Exploit consists of and why it is beneficial?

We have formed a close alliance with him where the intention is for him to specialise in research and us in financing him. This is a mini-alliance that is intended to last for the majority if not the entire game, but it does not put any specific limitations on our individual ways of running diplomacy. It is based entirely on trust rather than official agreements, and is dependant on the reason and rationality of both teams.

The benefits of this alliance, for us, are as follows;
-A safe northeastern border.
-Lesser dependancy on large teching blocs.
-Potential for joint military action.
-Close to guaranteed help in a defensive war.
-No need to build research infrastructure.
-A guaranteed trading partner (trade routes).
-Trustworthy sharing of diplomatic information.
-A stronger position in general.

If the large alliance pulls ahead of you in tech, maybe you can march some spraetorians up to the Portuguese border, extort some techs from the alliance, and then march north to enemies unknown instead?

Nah. If they pull ahead we will just pull them right back!

P.S: How fares Novice the intrepid warrior?

Pretty sure you are asking this in the wrong thread.

Though you may consider your request to name our next unit Snovice granted!

[novice]

Thanks for the replies, guys!

P.S: How fares Novice the intrepid warrior?

Pretty sure you are asking this in the wrong thread.

Uh, yeah.
There are so many teams...

Though you may consider your request to name our next unit Snovice granted!

Heh, thanks!

[Sandover]

Starting with my message to DJ;

Dear DJ,

We have received a message from Tech indicating that you have broken the sanctity of settlement negotiations with your founding of Karaoke Tuesday. Is this correct? We are eager to hear your version of what has transpired in your dealings with Tech, so that we may judge for ourselves who is at fault here. While we hold no grudge against you for looking into the possibilities of expansive warfarare, we still believe that a certain amount of decency is required in one's foreign diplomacy in order to achieve an appropriate amount of trust among one's peers.

Regards,
Sandover
Team SsS

Also sent Cath Bruig a note that we're running some diplomacy by DJ and will get back to them once we have heard from DJ.

JANK, who recently declared war on Ruff, sent us this;

Dear SsS,

We've heard very strong rumours about a big tech bloc that is forming (7-10 teams).

Are you aware of this? And are you in then?
If not, we need to discuss some actions.

Regards,
Nakor for JANK

And I responded;

Dear JANK,

We are aware of the presence of said tech bloc, though we are not part of it.

What actions do you have in mind?

Regards,
Sandover
Team SsS

The war declaration, and the message from JANK, gets even more interesting when reading Exploit's last message;

Dear Sandover,

I just completed a lengthy chat with Spectre and learned quite a bit. The DJ Civ alliance is supposed to have 8 members including DJ Civ, Village Green, Cath Bruig, Krill, HRE, England and Carthage. I'm not sure who the 8th civ is Spectre thought it was Tech Peddler or Rome.

The counter-alliance is already forming and seems likely to include everyone else fairly quickly. They want to recruit us but are willing to limit our alliance to achieving specific goals like we discussed. In essence, they are willing to trade tech with us and are looking to line up coordinated attacks against specific members of the DJ Civ alliance.

Specifically, it sounds like the Mayans who are north of DJ Civ are eager for a joint assault on DJ Civ (who is seen as the ringleader of the other alliance). With the Incans engaging the Aztecs that would put us into a 3 on 2 scenario against DJ Civ and Cath Bruig. I have not met the Mayans directly so this communication came via Spectre so it is only hearsay at the moment. I should meet the Mayans within the next 2-3 turns at most and find out directly from them. I am also close to meeting the Babylonians.

I think coordinating our efforts with the counter-alliance at least until we conquer Cath Bruig and DJ Civ makes sense. Another option would be for the two of us to lead the counter-alliance. Everyone seems cowed by Rome and Tech should wield some sway by being one of the top tech researchers in the game. What are your thoughts?

As an aside, please let me know if your explorers find any copper tiles. Apparently the Mayans just settled on another copper north of DJ CIv which means there were 2 copper between those two civs.

Regards,
Exploit

I'm currently working on a response to Exploit.

[Sandover]

Forgot to post another message from Exploit;

Dear Sandover,

The Tech Peddler association was wondering if you would be willing to agree to a mutual defense pact and to send out a notice to DJ Civ, Cath Bruig and myself announcing the pact. The purpose would be to deter the suspected joint assault by DJ Civ and Cath Bruig against Tech. I think such an impact would also have more impact if it came from SsS then Tech.

The Tech Peddler association would also like to invite Smash the Lion Killer to stay as a guest at Bison Pass. Smash could not only serve as additional defense for Bison Pass but he would also act as an observer that would allow SsS to observe first hand the location that is likely to be the initial focal point of any war with DJ Civ and Cath Bruig.

What do you think?

Regards,
Exploit

And here's my response to his last two messages;

Dear Exploit,

I will start by addressing your request for an official mutual defense pact. We have not broken off contact with neither DJ nor Cath Bruig at this point, though we will very soon give them our official ruling of declining membership within their alliance. This will be done under the pretext that DJ have breached the sanctity of ongoing settlement negotiations with Tech, and that we therefore no longer trust their diplomacy, which is a truthful statement on our part.

In the meantime, however, we have received information that Cath Bruig do not have horses and are therefore extremely unlikely to join DJ in an attack on Tech. Whether they have copper or not is unclear at this point, but our guess is that their recent third city, where ever it is, has hooked some up. In the light of this, do you still feel the need for an announcement of said pact? I personally believe that it is not in our best interest to not alert them on such cooperation taking place, and would prefer if Smash could head north to make additional contacts. However, I will listen to reason and abide to your pleas should you find our cooperation necessary to ensure the protection of Tech.

I agree that coordinating ourselves with the counter-alliance is in our best interest for the time being, and you have my blessing to follow through with trying to arrange such cooperation. I'm a bit more sceptical about SsS/Tech taking the lead, however that may be possible to arrange in time should it turn out to serve our needs. Mayan help against DJ sure sounds interesting, as that would give you a 2vs1 on them while the superior arms of SsS takes on the armies of Cath Bruig.

JANK (Inca) have sent us a short but interesting message, asking us about the alliance and suggesting that some actions needs to be taken. I have sent a reply, asking what actions they have in mind but I have not revealed our current intention to attack some of the alliance members.

Regards,
Sandover
Team SsS

[Sandover]

Turn 57:

Both DJ and Cath Bruig are now in slavery. Don't have anything interesting to tell you but here's a screenshot anyway.

[scooter]

Who is Spectre? I actually think this scenario is ideal, with us attacking Portugal, Inca attacking Aztec, and Exploit+Maya attacking DJ. Even if everyone doesn't get wiped out, at the very least pillage and raze a city or so. That seems to be the best way to collapse this alliance.

I'm also curious to see what India says about the settling dispute, though it's unlikely to matter really.