RB Pitboss #1 [SPOILERS] - Louis XIV of Byzantium

[mostly_harmless]

Yes, I agree. We keep on track with Math (probably just need a couple of turns cash saving maximum) and CoL with Oracle.

I will still ask Imhotep about his research rate. Maybe we can get him Priesthood via Alphabet earlier than he can self-research it? Unlikely, but we lose nothing by asking.

mh

[Kodii]

Sorry mh, I didn't realize you were still there. Are you drafting any emails? I already shipped one off to the anti-UTA and another to Imhotep.

[Kodii]

To Imhotep:

Thanks for the directions!

How far from Priesthood are you, and are you researching at 100%? We already have it and can trade it to you when shadyforce gets Alphabet (T78). If you turn off research until T78, will it speed up Monarchy?

From shadyforce to the anti-UTA:

Hi all,

In terms of what we are going to research after this round of teching is done, we probably have some coordinating to do. But I guess there is no rush just yet. However, I was chatting with Krill who asked me to pass on the message that he was hoping to be the one to do construction. He said his eta on it is around Maths+10.

To the anti-UTA:

I assume he'll be shutting off research until we can trade him Math? It looks like we will have to shut off research for a couple turns to have enough cash to research Math at 100%. That puts our ETA at T87, but I expect that to decrease as our cities grow.

From dsplaisted to the 3Some:

Hi Threesome,

I just got the below message from ZPV, which is very interesting.

It seems strange to me that the UTA would fall apart before it even got started, so I'm not sure how much I should trust the message. It's possible he's just trying to throw us off and figure out what kind of tech trade agreements we have.

I'm inclined to tell him that shadyforce is researching Alphabet, and suggest he go for Monarchy. Of course Broker is already researching that, so maybe it would make more sense for him to research Aesthetics. On the other hand if I tell him to research Aesthetics, that will probably signal that I have trades lined up for all the other techs, which will probably give away the existence of the anti-UTA.

Daniel
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Hi Daniel,

Well, it has come time for me to pick my research. However, an opening has arisen, I believe.
Dreylin and Kalin seem to be trying to worm out of giving me Alphabet, so that means I have something useful to research, leaving MC open for you.
Do you know if anyone else is researching Alphabet? Will I get any trade value by researching it?

IOW, I can honour the deal I made. It does mean I won't be able to front Writing to you as soon as could be desired, though.
I will need to save up gold for a couple of turns, since I may need an emergency upgrade to deal with Ruff's declaration of war against me, so I'm not yet sure of an ETA for Alphabet (and therefore Writing)

Regards,

Sam aka ZPV
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No, we didn't come to an agreement on Agriculture... but it is not a good research target for us, because we don't need it very much and it won't have much trade value since a lot of other civs already have it. Furthermore, it is a cheap tech, so once we finished it, we would be in the same situation we are now.

I can't fault you for protecting your own interests, but if you go for MC, what would you want us to research to trade to you? I don't think there is much, so we wouldn't be able to trade anything, which would royally screw us, and I don't see how it would help you unless you have trades lined up for MC, or you want to build the Colossus (in which case we might be able to work something out).

We hadn't worked out the details yet, but in my view we had at least agreed to MC for Writing + HBR. If backing out of the deal is what's best for your civ, then you're certainly free to do so, and I won't hold it against you (well... outside of the Pitboss game at least ), but it will certainly screw us over. And you were the one who suggested we research MC in the first place! If there was another decent research/trade path our civ could take I'd be open to modifying the deal, but like I've explained, I don't think there really is.

Daniel
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Well, there is certainly Agriculture - I think it is clear that I haven't agreed to front it to you.

I'm not looking to screw you over (otherwise, why would I even let you know about this so soon?) - just protecting my own interests, and those are best served by self-researching MC.

Sam
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We've got 70/675 beakers invested in MC so far, although as soon as Imhotep finishes his turn it should be around 97/675. Currently the ETA is turn 88, but I expect that it will actually come in around turn 84 due to cottage growth and trade routes.

The problem is there's not much else for us to research. We could do Iron Working, but Ruff already has that. Aesthetics or Mathematics would be fine, but we'd have to get Writing first.

What do you mean about techs before Alphabet? And why don't you think you'll be able to trade Mathematics for much? I'm certainly very interested in it.

Daniel
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How long have you been researching MC for? I think I'd be prepared to give a generous deal of some sort to compensate.

I expect that I can research it well before t90, and there is also the question of trade value.
Furthermore, I need to be able to research something for which I have the techs before Alphabet. Maths is a possiblity, but I know that I won't be able to trade it for much.

Regards,

Sam
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We are already researching MC. I've skipped Agriculture for now, so our ETA for MC is around turn 90 now, and that number will likely go down as we get more trade routes. So it seems to me if you traded it with us, you would get it sooner anyway, freeing you up to research something else (Mathematics and Currency look attractive to me).

Daniel
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Hi Daniel,

I've taken a look in my inbox, and the email is there, but I can't for the life of me remember reading it.
I'm sorry about that.

I do have a more pressing issue, however: I've been looking ahead in the tech tree, and the most obvious thing for me to research once I have HBR is MC. So while I don't want to annoy you by cancelling the deal without permission, I would really like to be able to work something out about this.

Regards,

Sam
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Hi Sam,

Sorry to bother you but I didn't get a response from you. Did you get the email below?

Daniel
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Hi Sam,

Here's what we more or less agreed to for our tech trade: You'll research HBR. We'll research MC. We will trade you MC for HBR, Writing, and some cheap tech. Since MC will take a long time to finish, you will give us Writing as soon as you get Alphabet.

We've just finished up Archery, and I was planning on researching Agriculture next, and then researching Metal Casting. However, we could probably live without Agriculture for a while longer, and it would make a good candidate for a cheap tech to even out the tech trade. I don't want to delay it too long though. So would you be willing to also front us Agriculture when you give us Writing? Do you know about what turn you will get Alphabet?

If we do skip Agriculture, it would shave 5 turns off the ETA for Metal casting, which would be nice.

Thanks,
Daniel

mh to the 3Some:

Hi Daniel,
interesting eMail exchange.
Looks like ZPV was going for the Oracle, by saying he could get MC earlier than you but would still need to research something before,. if I read his messages correctly.
I think you could tell him that you considered the old deal off-table. You will get Writing gifted from either Brian or us as part of our alliance, once Alphabet is around.
I guess Brian has Agriculture for you and us as well. (?)
HBR is supposed to come from Krill. With being quite low in beakers, he might actually have it ready by the time we get Alphabet.

Isn't Shady expecting to get attacked by or attacking ZPV? I would not reveal his research in that case.
You can certainly buy time by just telling him you are a bit unsure what to make of his messages.
First he agrees to a deal. Then he wriggles out of it, to get a deal with The Lins. Then this deal gets sour (we don't know who is to blame) and he comes back to you.
He certainly looks like a unreliable tech partner.
His question about getting trade value for Alphabet is looking a lot like fishing for info on the anti-UTA.

I would ask him what his ETA is for Monarchy, maybe.

Kodii to the 3Some:

I'm not sure about the Oracle conclusion that you (mh) came to, because I don't think ZPV has Priesthood.

Its a tough position to be in... there isn't a lot you can say that wouldn't reveal the trading pact we have over here. Maybe you can agree to a deal and then back out of it

I generally agree with mh's suggestions. Let's see what Brian has to say

mh to the 3Some:

Hmm, Kodii,
you are probably right. I see Oracle competition behind every corner.
I was just thinking that he was sure he could beat Daniels ETA comfortably and even start later.

ZPV has just settled his 4th city, but is about to lose a few workers to our beloved Ruff drones.

How many in game turns have passed since he wriggled out? 7-8 turns.
You could tell him that you have used the time to approach others for the techs ZPV was supposed to give you (Writing, HBR & AGri ?) and that you are reluctant to step back from those negotiations just because ZPV comes crawling back.
I am pretty convinced he is just looking to get information about anti-UTA member's tech deals.

shadyforce to the 3Some:

Quick email to fill you in:

- First of all, I have Aggriculture for you both. Krill will have HBR well before I have Alphabet.

- Demog screens suggest that ZPV researched HBR a turn or two ago. Dsp, you can see his demogs as well and you're better at reading them than I am so can you confirm this?

- I can't login to the game right now but ZPV has neither horses nor metal last time I checked. He was asking me for horses to help deal with Ruff's threat! Without metal, what can he use money to upgrade? Also, if he missed Oracle, would he not have plenty of money already?

- ZPV just settled his fourth city in a location far from his capital (quite close to rego's 2nd city) in a desperate attempt to get horse but Ruff nicked at least some of his workers that were on their way up there to work on the city. I have dispatched an archer nearby to take a look around.

- ZPV not getting alphabet is hardly much a problem for him if every other UTA member is getting alphabet since he can still trade for the other techs.

My initial opinion is that you should make the response that gives away the least information to him, just in case. Once I have alphabet an suddenly the non-UTA world have all traded stuff to each other, a large part of the secret will be out anyway and at that time we can approach him and see if he can be swayed from the UTA with the promise of a few trades.

We could suggest he research Monarchy as a backup in case the diplomatic situation, in 10/15 turns time, allows us to get Monarchy off him rather than waiting for Imhotep to get it?

shadyforce to the 3Some:

Because of Ruff's intervention, even if ZPV was planning an attack in the near future, he isn't now. And rego has not been scouting in or near my lands so I reckon he isn't going for a pre-construction rush if at all. I suddenly feel a lot less vulnerable! So revealing I'm doing alphabet is on the table if we feel it's the best option.

So as far as I can tell, the options are:

A: Asking ZPV to research Alphabet himself and the renaging on any deals is probably the best screw-him-over option. The downside is that if the UTA is collapsing, it doesn't help us sway him to our side.

B: Asking him to research Monarchy is an option, which gives away info that you know someone researching alpha and probably have trades lined up for other stuff. Also, it means you may have to renage on him if the diplomatic situation isn't suited to betraying Imhotep in 10/15 turns.

C: Aesthetics is the same as the Monarchy idea except that there is no Imhotep issue but it will be pretty clear that you already have trades lined up for the important techs.

D: You could just yell at him for backing out now. The more annoyed you sound the less sure he'll be that you have other trades lined up and he may think you are just pissed off at him.

Of these, my preference would be option A. But maybe there are other options?

dsplaisted to the 3Some:

I prefer telling him you are researching Alphabet. Even if he was going to attack, I don't think he'd get much of an advantage out of this. By telling him who is researching Alphabet, it will look like I'm being open with him, without giving away the full extent of the anti-UTA. It's not very plausible that I wouldn't have found a way to get Alphabet by now, so if I don't tell him, he will probably realize I'm withholding information from him, which will indicate that I'm part of some sort of alliance.

Option B doesn't necessarily mean betraying anyone. I can trade Metal Casting to ZPV for Monarchy, but I can still give Imhotep credit for the beakers for Monarchy too. Essentially I'd be giving him Metal Casting for free. Why would I want to do that?

I've been thinking about how to try to split apart the UTA. I think we have a chance to do this if we can trade techs to some, but not all of its members. If I trade MC to ZPV, then someone else in the UTA will have to research it. But ZPV won't need MC, so he might not trade Monarchy to that person. In that case the person who research MC would have to self-research Monarchy. So by giving a tech to a member of the UTA, we actually open up the possibility of them being forced to duplicate research. Of course the optimal thing for the UTA would be for ZPV to give Monarchy to everyone in the UTA, even to the civ who doesn't have anything to give back. But I'm not sure he'll realize this, and if we are able to keep the anti-UTA a secret, he's even less likely to do it.

I've used Monarchy as the example here, but Broker33 is already researching it from what I know. So I would like to tell ZPV that I am interested in Monarchy and Mathematics, but that I am going to try to trade MC to Broker for Monarchy, so he should research Mathematics. This will really make it look like there isn't an anti-UTA. If both trades go through, then I'll have given MC to two members of the UTA, which paradoxically will hopefully hinder the UTA as a whole.

Does this all make sense?

Kodii to the 3Some:

I think my brain just exploded.

mh to the 3Some:

Yes, I was also typing up a reply, but then gave up.


No horses for ZPV is certainly a good thing.

btw. is Fenton Denton Smith active at all? I would hate to spam his inbox with 12month worth of Threesome eMails.

shadyforce to the 3Some:

Ok... I'm about to deny horse to ZPV to deal with the ruff threat. He won't like me for that. I'm also sending an archer over with the intent to cause problems... maybe grab a worker, maybe even raze his new city (to further delay his horse hookup). He REALLY won't like me for that. Do you guys think I should hold back on the latter plan?

Also bear in mind that ZPV knows I'm getting copper from you, dsp. He must have figured this out from the trade screen? From this he will assume we got on reasonably well. Something to bear in mind if he asks questions about any deals we have. I dodged the question about why you're giving me the copper so if he comes asking and you want to give an answer, feel free to make up whatever reason you want, especially if it's a reason that explains why I was reluctant to say (eg as part of a tech deal that was none of his business).

shadyforce to the 3Some:

Sorry, to clarify, I'm about to deny him a loan of my horses that he requested.

dsplaisted to the 3Some:

Is Ruff really much of a threat to him? I figured it was just a warrior that Ruff had in the area, and any Praetorians he sent that way would take a long time to get to ZPV's territory.

I gave you copper because I am about to hook up a second source of it and you asked for it (OK I offered it to you but he doesn't need to know that). I'm a nice guy, doesn't need to be any more complicated than that. If he had asked for copper around the same time I would have considered giving it to him, although the fact that he was backing out of our agreed trade, and the fact that I was in a threesome with you guys would have made me think twice about doing so.

If you can steal a worker with little risk you should probably do so, and razing a city would definitely set him back.

Any objections to my plan of telling him you are researching Alphabet and suggesting he research Mathematics?

shadyforce to the 3Some:

Why Maths out of curiosity?

dsplaisted to the 3Some:

Because it's a high-priority tech, so making it look like I don't have a trade partner for it will make it look like there isn't an Anti-UTA.

Also of course if he researches it faster than m_h/kodii, I might be able to get it a few turns sooner.

To the 3Some:

Sounds good.
If you want to cause trouble, maybe it's worth coordinating with Ruff.
Ruff might be deleting the captured workers since he has no real protection for them.
Maybe you can declare a fake war on Ruff, to take a ZPV worker from him and appear to not have him as a partner at all.
Not sure whether that will affect your trade routes with Ruff, though. Were you expecting to get any in the near future?

Btw, if you guys think that using the chat room will help, feel free.

[mostly_harmless]

You think people can keep track of this??? :D
I am struggling and I have it all neatly organized in Thunderbird.

Do we want to offer OB to Imhotep to pass his lands northwards?

mh

[Kodii]

You think people can keep track of this??? :D

I don't know, the lurkers can tell me :P

Do we want to offer OB to Imhotep to pass his lands northwards?

I'm fine with that. Maybe send another e-mail adding on to the one I already sent?

[mostly_harmless]

We just got a message from chatzy with a password I don't recognize. Are you behind that?

mh

[Kodii]

Yes, for some reason, it wouldn't let me log into the chat as Kodii, so I registered the e-mail and it's all fine now. Daniel, Brian and I are all in the chatroom if you would like to join us.

[Kodii]

Kodii: Silly chat wouldn't let me log in as Kodii...
shadyforce from x.x.x.63 joined the chat 103 minutes ago
shadyforce: hi
shadyforce: that colossus trade idea is amusing
shadyforce: but it could work!
Kodii: Daniel, you have two coppers? I wonder whether one of those coppers "belongs" to someone else (ZPV?)
mostly_harmless from x.x.x.97 joined the chat 97 minutes ago
mostly_harmless: hi
Kodii: Daniel stole your colour!
mostly_harmless: Re: Colossus: just a wild idea, really. But so much attached to it: maintenance cost, culture, upkeep, etc. It might be too complicated to try out in this game.
mostly_harmless: Uh, this is "our" room. I have first rights on aqua.
mostly_harmless: Brian, you have met everyone, right? So you can spot from the foreign advisor screen when anyone researches Alphabet. We only have 2nd info, that The Lins are going for it, right?
shadyforce: Krill also believes the Lins are going for Alpha
shadyforce: I'll check the tech trade screen... thinkI forgot to this turn but I doube they have it this early
shadyforce: what do we do when I get alpha?
shadyforce: I could instantly trade it to all 6 non-UTA members and get the techs that people have at the time... but that will give away the whole non-UTA thing a bit too obviously for my liking
Kodii: I think you would only be able to get IW and HBR at the time you get Alpha
Kodii: We will meet regoarrarr this turn, and Krill after that
Kodii: Anyone know the quickest directions to sunrise? I think our warrior in Lin land will reach him before our warrior north of Brian
shadyforce: go past my cities to the west, and north when you pass by carthage cities
shadyforce: (ignore carthage's new city... go under that and a little further west
shadyforce: it's quite a trek though
Kodii: We might go north through Imhotep's land if we can get OB
shadyforce: I could get mysticism off someone as well
Kodii: Do you know how far it is to the northern edge?
shadyforce: Alphabet for mysticism... sounds fair
Kodii: Unless we trade the rest to you after that
Kodii: ie meditation, priesthood
mostly_harmless: Sorry guys, I am busy drafting up that Colossus plan in an eMail. Will get back shortly.
Kodii: alright
Kodii: Is there anyone more north than Imhotep?
mostly_harmless: As far as I am concerned, we trade everything within the 3some the moment we can.
shadyforce: have you a landmark I can refer to?
shadyforce: I don't know where imhotep's culture is exactly, but there is no one directly north of him as far as I know
dsplaisted: OK, I'm back and I'm brown
shadyforce: Krill is easily the civ with the highest latitude
Kodii: The map doesn't seem very wide
Kodii: Broker, Daniel, us at the bottom
shadyforce: it's probably a big square alright
Kodii: I think its more of a very wide rectangle
Kodii: or long**
shadyforce: can't remember if I've actually found the northern edge... I'll check
dsplaisted: when gifting a city, do you lose food stored in the food box?
shadyforce: I don't know exactly... but it's pretty close to 50 tiles in height
shadyforce: about 80 wide
shadyforce: really needs a sim in case there are unforseen complications
dsplaisted: what needs a sim?
dsplaisted: In response to the copper question, neither of them belong to someone else
Kodii: I'm sure one of them is yours
dsplaisted: both of them are within 5 tiles of my capital
dsplaisted: ZPV would have to cross water to get to one of them
Kodii: wow, I wonder what Sullla was thinking haha
dsplaisted: hehe
dsplaisted: maybe I don't have any iron
shadyforce: Sullla really wanted some amphibious warfare
Kodii: And you guys have found marble/stone?
dsplaisted: yep, I've got marble in "my" territory, although it's really close to ZPV's capital, across the water
dsplaisted: and stone too, although that's pretty safely in my territory
dsplaisted: neither of them is close to my capital though, so it would be a while before I could grab them
Kodii: I guess Sullla really likes you
dsplaisted: well I did name my capital after him...
dsplaisted: but I guess that was after he created the map ;-)
shadyforce: ZPV has a lot of settleable terrain to his north... I'd be surprised if he ferries a settler over to your island
dsplaisted: it's a really attractive site though- marble, crabs, and corn, and only 5 tiles from his capital
shadyforce: dsp, is your canal town 1 tile east of the corn beside the crab?
dsplaisted: but yeah if he does settle it I'll have to take it from him
shadyforce: sorry never mind, I assume your on about a totally different canal... that spot isn't even a canal
Kodii: mh sent the plan
dsplaisted: responded to plan
shadyforce: ZPV doesn't have copper to help his colossus either, hehe
Kodii: Brian, do you want to tell Krill that we have OB with the Lins and are passing north through his land
dsplaisted: having you build the forge saves 60 hammers and the city only needs to change hands for 1 turn
dsplaisted: having you build the colossus only saves 21 hammers, and takes around 11 turns
shadyforce: I told Krill already, he should be staying put
mostly_harmless: Good point Daniel. Forge it is then, if at all. Chatting with IMhotep ingame. He confirms, no gold, no silver, no gems. and he is pissed about his terrain. Did not start with a 6foo tile at the cap either.
mostly_harmless: We have OB with Imhotep.
Kodii: Did he at least get ivory?
Kodii: I was under the impression that everyone got ivory and a grassland pigs
shadyforce: I never got a grassland pigs
shadyforce: all I got was ivory and a measely fish
shadyforce: and I didn't start with fishing! grr
mostly_harmless: Yes he has Ivory and a calendar happiness. But "only" a grassland cow. And then a long time nothing.
shadyforce: I'd trade my fish for a grass cow any day
shadyforce: well, most days
mostly_harmless: Oh, I thought pigs and ivory were given? Brokers start looks like a duplicate of ours.
shadyforce: well, I have 2 jungle sugars... I don't know if they count
shadyforce: useless at the start
mostly_harmless: Hmm, well I guess giving everybody the exact same start is not going to be interesting to the lurkers.
mostly_harmless: Imhotep already has Priesthood and is already on Monarchy. ETA 22 turns. He says he is suffering from cottageable land.
mostly_harmless: And he is last in GNP.
dsplaisted: I really like the idea of trading cities to get production bonuses
dsplaisted: m_h/Kodii can build forges in my cities
dsplaisted: and I can build granaries in theirs
dsplaisted: and either of us can build libraries in shadyforce's cities
shadyforce: I'll build your libraries
dsplaisted: ah, forgot you were CRE
shadyforce: I'll work your cottages too if that helps?
mostly_harmless: )))
shadyforce: guys, I'm off to get dinner. would someone mind emailing me the chat log if you are clearing the room?
Kodii: will do
shadyforce from x.x.x.63 left the chat 40 minutes ago
mostly_harmless: ok, met regoarrar in game. Confirms no gold, no silver no gems. Is looking for Daniel.
mostly_harmless: Is there anyone not being in Slavery?
Kodii: I don't think everyone is in Slavery
mostly_harmless: Everyoe we have met, is.
mostly_harmless: regoarrar wants to get wonder agreements.
mostly_harmless: He was going for the GreatLighthouse apparently.
mostly_harmless: I told him we will wite him an email.
mostly_harmless: *write
mostly_harmless: He said he is interested in a few.
Kodii: well, we'll be in Slavery too in a few turns
mostly_harmless: With him chasing the GLH, hemight be a candidate for the Colossus,
mostly_harmless: Yep. Have we toldanyone about that yet?
mostly_harmless: about "THAT" yet.
mostly_harmless: Ok. I am off to bed. You will probably play the next turn. I hope Ruff accepts to OB this turn. Will be interesting to see what trade routes we get at KObe.
mostly_harmless: Bye.
shadyforce from x.x.x.63 joined the chat 9 minutes ago
Kodii from x.x.x.88 joined the chat 9 minutes ago
shadyforce: everyone is in slavery except you
Kodii: No, we haven't told anyone about THAT
Kodii: Oh he's gone
shadyforce: regoarrarr on wonders means regoarrarr not on military
Kodii: Alright, I think this chat is over for today, I'll grab a copy, send it out, and clear the room
shadyforce: chat to you later

"Operation Colossus"

mh to the 3Some:

Re: Colossus.
Turn X-2: Daniels worker start pre-chopping the forest around the future city site.
Turn X: We get Sailing from Brian (Important to connect to trade network). Daniel settles Canal City and gifts Canal City and Workers and garrison units to us. (garrison could stay under Daniels command, but will incur support costs for being abroad, iirc.)
Turn X+1: We select Forge and finish chops. Forge only takes 60 raw hammers for us, so 2 chops will be enough, assuming we have Math by then (depending on when Turn X is).
Turn X+2-3: We select Colossus and finish the other two chops. Worker movement might be involved. Colossus only takes us 100 raw hammers. Two chops shave off 60 of it.
Turn X+5: Canal City's border expand. Workers can start farming the corn tile.
Turn X+9: Canal City grows to size 2. By now it has ~68/100 raw hammers.
Turn X+10: Canal City can be whipped to complete Colossus.
Turn X+11: Canal City is gifted back to Daniel.

Alternatively, there is forest in the 3rd ring (to the east) which can be chopped, but with a penalty, I believe.

You will have to sacrifice all forest tiles, but you have a grassland hill and a horses tile for production. (Moai city?)

Of course this could also work with a more mature city of yours. But the maintenance will be higher.
The increased maintenance and upkeep costs for us by getting Canal City will only partially be offset by gaining a trade route (+2gpt).
So think of a nice compensation.

Things to consider:
I am not sure Colossus will retain it's culture points when a city is gifted. I t certainly does not do it when captured, iirc. (?)
Our alliance will be obvious.
There is some margin in there to wait for Maths for a few turns. The chops can be realized later in the timeline.

What do you guys think.
Have a good look from all sides.

Kodii to the 3Some:

What do we get from it?

It is quite the comprehensive plan and would definitely do wonders to our alliance. Excuse the pun.

dsplaisted to the 3Some:

You're forgetting that the forge will also add 25% production. So the
colossus will only cost around 91 hammers for you (since you'd have a
2.75x multiplier). However, it would be around 112 hammers for us, so
that's only a savings of 21 hammers.

I think a better plan is just to have you build the forge. That way
if we line up the chops right, you only have to have the city for 1
turn, and we save 60 hammers.

I also don't think I want to build the Colossus in the canal city.
I'm thinking of an aggressive location near where Ruff and Imhotep
clashed- it will be a good blocker city for me and help secure the
land bridge as my territory.

mh to the 3Some:

Settling aggressively to Ruff, will surely piss him off big time, as we are also shutting him out on his southern and eastern side.
There is a very aggressive spot next to his capital on a jungle hill with ivory, rice and sea food.
But this will draw Praetorians for sure.

dsplaisted to the 3Some:

Sounds like you may be talking about the spot I was thinking of,
although I wasn't aware that was his capital.

I was planning on settling that spot on turn 90, with probably 2
skirmishers and an axeman for initial defense. We'll see how it pans
out though.

[Kodii]

T74:

Höpfner completed his chop. What does he do now? Cottage?
Boehm's chop will finish next turn with the Pyramids due in 2
Valensise is chopping the plains hill at the capital
Steiner is roading to City 2
Himelfarb is pasturing the cows at Kobe

Our scouting warriors are moving deeper in Imhotep's and Lin land, both heading north. We should meet Krill north of Lin territory.

Customs (Broker33's capital) now has a sabotage cost of 1052. mh, did you ever figure out what it is he might be building? It's seems rather hefty and would guess it is the Oracle for Feudalism. Do we want to ask him what his ETA for Monarchy is?

Regarding OB with Ruff, do we even get trade routes yet? I think we need Sailing as well.

[mostly_harmless]

Höpfner, I think shoudl cottage his current tile and generally stay with CoT to improve it. CoT has the Oasis tile to work next. The on size Oasis & Copper to finish the Library?
I will have to look back at my numbers, whether we could squeeze a Granary in before the Library. We want the 1st GP to be either Engineer or Scientist, right?

Böhm, I think should go back to BH in 3 turns, improving the cap. While Valensise continues to City 2 after the chop is done?

Ruff turned down our Open Border. Need to write an eMail then.

I am irritated by The Lins scout sitting next to BH. We gave them directions to move west to meet Daniel. But he has moved north into our territory for two turns now. This is not what this Open Border agreement was about.
This is from Kalin.

I can assure you that
if you would grant us OB we would follow your instructions to move
through your territory and would not share any information with a
third party without permission.

Do we want to send a message about this?

mh