plako Wrote:I won't put all units on same plot so they'll see most of the relevant resources right away.
Alternatively, you could also just manually reveal a certain radius of tiles around each player's start. Whatever works though.
plako Wrote:Concerning Team Spulla and Team Kuro starts. There is no diagonal option since I've shifted nations in the south 21 tiles. Everyone has easy access to other nations.
Makes sense.
plako Wrote:Yeah. I'll try to get it ready enough this evening (~12h).
Some initial thoughts. Bear in mind that I think the map as a whole looks good, and these are mostly minor issues. Figured I'd let you know about them anyway though.
- The "1" spots for each team are quite far apart compared to the "2" and "3" spots. This may have been intentional in the design... but be aware that it will have the effect of isolating the "1" players on each team a bit relative to their teammates. If the "1" player isn't particularly strong on their own, this could leave them relatively vulnerable. I'd be inclined to shift the "1" players a bit closer to their teammates if only to allow for a bit more teamwork, but up to you. Exact distances:
Code:
Spot 2->3
Team 1: minimum 10 tiles
Team 2: minimum 10 tiles
Team 3: minimum 11 tiles
Team 4: minimum 10 tiles
Spot 1->2
Team 1: minimum 16 tiles
Team 2: minimum 16 tiles
Team 3: minimum 15 tiles
Team 4: minimum 16 tiles
Spot 1->3
Team 1: minimum 22 tiles
Team 2: minimum 22 tiles
Team 3: minimum 22 tiles
Team 4: minimum 25 tiles (!!!)
- The above also revealed that Team 4 has a critical defect where peaks and a slightly different land layout make it impossible for players 1 and 3 to travel to each other directly by land in less than ~30 tiles (!!!). This effectively forces the shortest route between players 1 and 3 to be through player 2, which isn't the case for any other team. This definitely needs to be fixed; two teammates being so isolated from one another definitely shouldn't be happening, especially when it's not the case for any other team. (And especially when it's for "Team Reject" - they need no further handicaps against them! )
- Also for each team, from 2->3 there are 2-3 chokepoints (all within likely capital borders), while from 1->2 there are 4 chokepoints (most outside likely early borders) and from 1->3 - ignoring team 4 - there are 11 chokepoints (all outside likely early borders). This may further increase the difficulty that the "2" and "3" players on each team have in assisting their "1" teammate.
- The "1-2" and "2-2" spots are extremely close (only 12 tiles apart by land!), much closer than any other spots. This should probably be changed, since otherwise the first two teams are going to be pushed a lot harder towards war than the last two. It appears to be an issue with the mirroring of the starts... a translation rather than direct mirroring might have been better in retrospect, but never mind. For the record, the full list of minimum distances between each team:
Code:
Team 1
->2: Minimum 12 tiles (1-2 to 2-2)
->3: Minimum 15 tiles (1-3 to 3-3)
->4: Minimum 17 tiles (1-1 to 4-2)
Team 2
->1: Minimum 12 tiles (2-2 to 1-2)
->3: Minimum 18 tiles (2-1 to 3-2)
->4: Minimum 15 tiles (2-3 to 4-3)
Team 3
->1: Minimum 15 tiles (3-3 to 1-3)
->2: Minimum 18 tiles (3-2 to 2-1)
->4: Minimum 21 tiles (3-2 to 4-1)
Team 4
->1: Minimum 17 tiles (4-2 to 1-1)
->2: Minimum 15 tiles (4-3 to 2-3)
->3: Minimum 21 tiles (4-1 to 3-2)
- Looking at that, teams 3 and 4 definitely have a bit more leg room before they start running into other teams compared to teams 1 and 2, so you might want to adjust that a bit.
- Another issue is that 3-1 in particular is a bit too isolated relative to everyone else. You can see this from the fact that he's the only one without a mention in the table above, or from just looking at the map. Right now he has just a little bit too much of the map to himself IMHO. Also, 4-1 seems to have a similar issue, with a little more leg room than most others.
- I presume that was intentional with you swapping the Sheep/Cows in some places. All seems fairly balanced, so no real issue.
- Regarding early strategic resources, these look pretty good overall. Seems you were pretty liberal with their placement... in most cases there's >1 source per person. One thing I noted was that the "3" players might have a little trouble holding onto their Iron sources early in the game, as they're fairly out in the open (whereas everyone elses' sources are fairly backline). However, they each have easy Copper and can always get Iron from their teammates later, so maybe this isn't a problem.
- The later strategic resources also seem pretty good. Only one minor issue with the Oil distribution... I think the only easy sources for 1-2 and 2-2 are a bit too precariously placed between them. (Mostly an issue due to the extreme closeness of their starts.) Anyway, I'd move these Oil sources closer towards the respective players just to ensure one of them doesn't unreasonably end up struggling for Oil when/if the time comes.
- The "2" players seem to get the short end of the stick, at least compared to the mega-awesome starts for the "1" and "3" players. Perhaps add a few more hills around the "2" player start locations? That would probably do the trick... they seem a bit production-lite otherwise (especially if moved to the otherwise obvious triple food + plains hill spots).
Okay, that went on for a bit longer than I anticipated, but I hope it was helpful. I want to reiterate that on the whole the map looks good, and most of this stuff is just me nitpicking. Nice job, Plako.
Thank you for the comments LP. I think I won't touch the distances Ãnside the team. However I probably need to reconsider, if it was worth it to move nations in the south 21 tiles. Maybe some other swap e.g. 10 would be better to keep the north-south balance so that I wouldn't need to try to do a lot of other balancing. I'll think about this.
Start 1 on each team (FPs) has a 19-tile lake to its left/right.
a) Probably going to surprise teams that they can't build boats there.
b) Team 4 has a 21-tile lake instead. This is both good (they can build boats!) and bad (it blocks off land in combination with some mountains).
I don't think this is a huge deal, maybe this level of variation is desirable even, just want to make sure you know about it.