Varn of the Illians - Serdoa and WK playing it cool

[WarriorKnight]

Yeah indeed, we popped Hunting on T1 from a hut. It is not on our tech-path but please slap me if I therefore call that unfortunate or something similar

Hunting on T1?!? Wow.

It's not on the tech path but who cares? Very nice.

[Serdoa]

Hello

You mind if I ded-lurk this? This has the same set up as the PBEM IV game so I can tell it's going to be a lot of fun.

Your hut luck is terrifying.

I'm happy to have you with us Ravus. As for my hut luck, well, see the tech-thread. Probably it is taken away from us when we restart. Not really happy about that, but I don't know what Mists problem is and asking to take away that hut and giving me the tech at T0 is probably too much. Well, thinking about it... we have to replay T0 with the same moves we did before (at least that is how we did it in every game that needed a reload till now) to be fair to everyone and not give anway an advantage or disadvantage because of the reload. So, I think it is fair to ask the map maker to take away the hut and give me the tech, as otherwise that reload will disadvantage me without my fault. Opinions?

[Ravus Sol]

I'm happy to have you with us Ravus. As for my hut luck, well, see the tech-thread. Probably it is taken away from us when we restart. Not really happy about that, but I don't know what Mists problem is and asking to take away that hut and giving me the tech at T0 is probably too much. Well, thinking about it... we have to replay T0 with the same moves we did before (at least that is how we did it in every game that needed a reload till now) to be fair to everyone and not give anway an advantage or disadvantage because of the reload. So, I think it is fair to ask the map maker to take away the hut and give me the tech, as otherwise that reload will disadvantage me without my fault. Opinions?

It's tricky, but I think you could make a case or at least ask someone to check if Mist's reason is serious. You have past the "Can't restart because something Big has happened".

If everyone makes the same moves then I think you should still get Hunting as long as the map itself isn't being changed. I think you at least need to bring it to people's attention because this is gamechanging.

[WarriorKnight]

Losing Hunting, while obviously not desirable, shouldn't be much of a setback. Your probably not going to use Hawks or Hunters for a very long time and I don't see any campable resources nearby (although there might be some in the fog). Although I think that the point is moot since you've been given Hunting to start with now.

[Serdoa]

Yeah, we started with Hunting. In raw beaker costs thats 46 turns of research right now. Research we wouldn't have started anytime soon (probably not before T100+ or even later) but it is still nice to have it, especially as the Hawks might help scout our PoW-rush-target.

Apart from that I replayed the turn and moved as before (as far as I could remember my moves that is, but I am sure on the warrior and 95% sure on the scout). Nothing interesting found so far, but I will take screenies after next turns scouting nevertheless.

Research is on Agriculture (7t remaining) and we are building a worker (8t remaining).

[Serdoa]

Turn 1 played (I count the last one as 0 to not get confused). Not all that much happening of course, so lets take a look at some interesting data:

Score:



SL has as the only one not settled on T1. I assume that everyone got a nearly similar start with a plains hill to start on, some food-res and floodplains and a river so I am not sure what would make him move away. Will be interesting to see if he settles this turn or if he moves back to the starting spot.

Also obvious (but we knowed that before) is that Krill got his tech as well.

Demos:



GNP:

We have 14 and are second. Rival Best is also 14. As far as I remember in ties on the Demo screen it gets sorted by player order. That would mean that one player playing before me has 14 GNP. That has to be Mist with his Creative trait. The rival worst of 0 is obviously SL. That gives us

Mist: 14
Amelia: <14
Sareln: <14
Krill: <15
SL: 0
Rival Average: 10

Rival Average of 10 means a total GNP of 50-54. 49 would get 9.8, rounded down to 9, 55 would get 11. With the 14 of Mist that leaves somewhere between 36-40 to divide between 3 players. Everyone gets a minimum of 8 commerce, 2 culture for the palace and 1 commerce for the city tile. As I assume kinda similar starting spots I conclude that everyone probably has a 3 food, 1 commerce tile and looking at the food demos it shows that indeed anyone has a 5 food yield, so is working this tile. That leaves our minimum GNP for everyone at 12. I don't see a way to get a GNP of 13 for Amelia and Sareln (they could work a 2 commerce tile like the silk I have but that would lead to a different average food yield), so we can conclude:

Mist: 14
Amelia: 12
Sareln: 12
Krill: <15
SL: 0

From the original 50-54 GNP are 12-16 still open to be distributed. If Krill had got not tech he would obviously have 12. But he got one so he might research something we a pre-req. That would lead to a GNP of 14, which would be perfectly possible. So, to summarize, I can not be sure if Krill got a great tech for himself or only a "nice-to-have"-kinda tech.

MfG and Food:

Shows simply that everyone is working a 3 food tile, which means 3 hammers for everyone. And probably 1 commerce on that 3 food tile as explained earlier.

Soldiers:

Something's wrong here isn't it? I think I remember that last time when I got Hunting via the hut it was higher - does it not calculate correctly if you start with the tech? Shouldn't be the case as that works (obviously) without issue in vanilla BTS when you start with The Wheel for example. So.. um, is my memory wrong or is it indeed lower?

Land Area:

No one has a water tile in his BFC and Mist has similar to us already expanded his borders. (21000 for Mist + 3 x 9000 = 48000 / 5 = 9600)

Approval Rate: Enchantment Mana is upping mine. Not in the mood to check who else has which mana and stuff.

Life Expectancy: I am not sure why I have the highest, I think I have no mana giving me a bonus so probably I simply have the most forests in my BFC? If so that is not as strong as it would be in BTS. Right now I hope that they won't grow on the tiles I want to farm as it will take quite some time before I am going to be able to chop them.

Scouting:



2 mana nodes already found nearby, thats good. Not sure what we'll do with them but still. Many sheep nearby is not so fortunate as we are lacking AH and probably will for sometime. Still, the spot the warrior is on (3E,2S of the cap) seems like a possible city location. So does the spot 3N of the cap. Depending on what else is in the fog the one north seems like a stronger pick for a second city as we will be able to farm the floodplains (similar gain then farming the sheep down in the south) but will also get the reagents plantation and therefore more commerce. Thoughts?

I am also debating if I use the warrior for more scouting or if I move him back to the cap and simply wait those few turns till I can start producing a warrior there. Reason is that a scout could two-move the city from the NW or SW, S and SE and I can at most produce 5 hammers a turn, which means a warrior takes 4 turns. Thats too long for my liking to feel save when I move away. Again, thoughts?

[Ravus Sol]

Warrior: Depending on the size of the map you normally have a few turns to feel safe from both barbarians and enemy players. You probably have long enough to do a quick circle of the east then run back to the capital before turn 5. But If the map is smaller then it should be then perhaps you should just move him back pronto *shrug* But either way i'm more of a fan of having a defended capital in FFH then a empty one. Too much strange stuff can happen.

The North is definatly the stronger spot. With a grain and Calendar resource in the Capitals BFC it makes sense to tech towards that first. agrarian boosted floodplains have enough food to support a starting city on their own. Plus where there is one floodplain there could be more. It would be very easy to just move the warrior once more to the SE before returning home so you can see if the Sheep site is better then the North one.

[Serdoa]

Some more turns played. We are at T4 now (so 5 turns in total). I have recalled the warrior to the cap on T2, so we won't have much information about the southeast for now. I'd really have liked to search with him around, but I don't want to leave the cap undefended.

T2:

Score changed again as SL got a tech and settled and is now at 44 score, tied with us for first.



Demos did also change, so lets see what we can find out by looking at them:



[strike]GNP of 14 best, 12 worst, 13 average and ourselves ranked 2nd still means

Mist: 14
Sareln: 12 - 13
Amelia: 12 - 13
SL: 12 - 14
Krill: 12 - 14

with a total between 65 - 69. Again, as explained earlier, I see right now no way for 13, so I assume that Sareln and Amelia had 12 each. Together with Mist that gives a total of 38, leaving 27 - 31. And that means that both SL and Krill have a GNP of 14 right now -> they research something with a pre-req. They both got a tech, so that makes sense. Lets try to find out which tech. [/strike]

Ok, lets scratch everything I said about sorting in case of ties. Looking at the MfG stat, everyone has 3. I am at 3rd place. Two people in front of me? That can only mean that the ties in demos are broken the other way round, meaning players AFTER me in the turn order will be ranked higher. Otherwise I would have to be fourth. Someone able to tell me without doubt how it works?

For now, below the demos for T3 and T4 as well. I'll probably make an excelsheet to follow this data (at least if someone can tell me the sorting order)





Seems like 2 players have grown their cap on T4, giving a total pop of 6000,6000, 1000, 1000, 1000 = 15000 (5 x 3000, being in line with the average). If the sorting in case of ties is really that the higher player number (meaning being later in the turn order) is higher ranked, my 5th place means that both Krill and SL are on size 1 still (worker first), whereas 2 of Amelia, Sareln, Mist are on size 2. Looking at the GNP of 16, I would assume Mist is one of those with size 2.

Well, lets see when this weekend is over if I could get that data into a table and understand it better. For now I just conclude that, if I pop Stasis on T6, there will be at least 3 players with only their scout and warrior for defense. Sounds good for me.

Apart from this news, the only thing worthwhile to report is that we popped a hut on T4 and got



Would have loved to get another tech, but I am happy with some gold as well

[WarriorKnight]

Ok, lets scratch everything I said about sorting in case of ties. Looking at the MfG stat, everyone has 3. I am at 3rd place. Two people in front of me? That can only mean that the ties in demos are broken the other way round, meaning players AFTER me in the turn order will be ranked higher. Otherwise I would have to be fourth. Someone able to tell me without doubt how it works?

Yep, if there's a tie in demographics, the last player in the turn order wins the tiebraker. The easiest way to check is by looking at imports/exports.

[Serdoa]

Well, well, well. T5 came and I decided (after several hours of back and forth) to cast



Why on hell would I cast it on T5? The short explanation is: I have gone through the demos and concluded it is probably best to use it now. The longer one will follow when I go through everything I found out by looking through the demos.

Apart from casting Stasis, everything else proceeded as planned. The warrior returned to the capital and will fortify there and our scout moved further west. He found a wandering goblin on the furs tile in the south.

Looking at the score:



It seems SL popped yet another tech. I wonder what he got till now, but he is the one I am most unsure about concerning techs.

Demos:



I won't bother to go into details with that right now as the next post will be solely about exactly that stuff...