Mapmaking and Lurking thread

[Serdoa]

Well, this game definitely appears to be Dave's to lose...though I like the way plako is thinking.

Can he get enough strong defenders in place that ignore death damage to hold off the Calabim? I'll be extremely impressed if he does.

Do the Calabim even need to hold off their assault until spellcasting returns? I realize Dave is optimized for spectres (6 death!!!), but even without spectres vampires are tough customers.

Oh, one other thought...given that plako is absorbing all these new cities taken from Serdoa, his economy has got to be in shambles...I'm not sure the war against the Lanun actually strengthened his civilization. I guess one benefit is that it allowed his army to cut its teeth...and I'll bet it was fun too, at least for plako.

I'm not sure how much his economy will take a hit really. Due to the Coves he should have 6 cities that can pay most of their costs on their own (not sure how strong they are for him, but he should at least have 4c from 1 cove, 1c from center, 2c from TR to island = 7c. And some cities have another cove). Though my cities were optimized for Aristocracy and Agrarianism while I think he has gone for cottages. Still, those cities shouldn't be that bad, so i don't think he should be weaker by taking me over. But he will need a few turns to get his troops back in position certainly.

[Mafro]

Wow, things are really getting hot and heavy between Dave and plako, and Ichabod appears to have given him a bit of a pause. Dave appears to have taken a solid hit, but he isn't showing any signs of slowing down. Not sure if that's going to be a mistake or not.

Here's the casualty tally from Dave's latest log, if anyone cares:
Dave, from the Khazad: 6 - 3 bloodpets, 1 zealot, 1 griffon, 1 giant spider
Ichabod: 1 warrior

Dave, from the Amurites: 10 - 4 moroi, 3 vampires, 1 adept, 1 catapult, 1 sewer rat (scout?)
plako: 3 warriors

Dave killed a few during his turn, but I'm not sure the tallies. It sounds like at least 6 Khazad units were killed, but he made no mention of taking back Khazak, so I'm guessing he did not.

Dave's "mega stack" consists of 12 vampires, 1 cultist, and 2 bloodpets - pretty formidable, but a shadow of what it could be with spectres. I realize he's racing to beat down plako while he's out of position, but I think I'd spend the time finishing off Ichabod, feeding my vampires, and ultimately keeping my stack out of harm's way until spellcasting is back. Given his city advantage, it seems like he should be able to grow his strength in 12 turns even more than plako can, not even considering the power growth that will occur once spectres are back in play. Guess it's easy to be an armchair general with all the info.

Anyway, the next few turns should be exciting!

[HidingKneel]

Dave's "mega stack" consists of 12 vampires, 1 cultist, and 2 bloodpets - pretty formidable, but a shadow of what it could be with spectres. I realize he's racing to beat down plako while he's out of position, but I think I'd spend the time finishing off Ichabod, feeding my vampires, and ultimately keeping my stack out of harm's way until spellcasting is back. Given his city advantage, it seems like he should be able to grow his strength in 12 turns even more than plako can, not even considering the power growth that will occur once spectres are back in play. Guess it's easy to be an armchair general with all the info.

I think Plako agrees with you. But Dave has such a huge advantage at this point that I doubt it will matter.
He'll be fine even if Plako manages to wipe out his "mega-stack"... it'll just take a little longer to wrap the game up.

[jalepeno]

I think it's less clearcut, since 12 turns delay doesn't just mean Plako gets more firebows v Dave getting even more vampires + spellcasting. In that time Plako is looking at grabbing spectre/stack counters (his own spectres, life II, Gibbon). So I'm liking the attack now strategy - he's got the production base to replace lost units and maybe keeping the pressure on prevents Plako from getting those counters.

[HidingKneel]

Plako might be able to get some counters for spectres... but I doubt he'll find a counter for the fact that the vampires have way more production than he does.

[Mafro]

Plako might be able to get some counters for spectres... but I doubt he'll find a counter for the fact that the vampires have way more production than he does.

Yeah, no kidding.

Also, a couple things have confused me about the strategy discussions related to countering spectres....

How does Life II help? I understand about being able to cast Destroy Undead, but in my (limited) experience you run your vampires up to a city or stack, summon spectres, and use them up weakening or killing defenders before finishing the job with your other units. While some spectres may survive to see your opponent's turn, they've already done most of the damage they're going to do, so killing them at that point is relatively useless. Sure, they can act as blockers, but that seems minor compared to their offensive capability.

How does getting your own Death mana help, other than by being able to summon your own spectres? Mana affinity isn't based on the difference in the number of nodes between you and your opponent is it? It's just a straight bonus based on your own nodes, right?

With no Angels, Elementals, Golems, or Illusions readily available, I think Pit Beasts or Spectres are a reasonable counter, Pit Beasts especially with their base strength of 4 and +1 Unholy Damage (though spectres, being Undead, have +50% Resistance to Unholy damage). Gibbon Goetia could deliver illusions and third-tier summons, but even with Twincast the numbers just aren't there, and the time isn't there anyway.

All that said, looking at the sheer numbers that Dave is able to bring to bear right now, I think this game is as good as done.

Ooh...means a new one should be starting up soon...!

[HidingKneel]

How does Life II help? I understand about being able to cast Destroy Undead, but in my (limited) experience you run your vampires up to a city or stack, summon spectres, and use them up weakening or killing defenders before finishing the job with your other units. While some spectres may survive to see your opponent's turn, they've already done most of the damage they're going to do, so killing them at that point is relatively useless. Sure, they can act as blockers, but that seems minor compared to their offensive capability.

Even if healthy Vampires will defend the stack, spectres will probably cover wounded Vampires. And if you connect enough Death nodes, spectres might even cover the healthy ones.

How does getting your own Death mana help, other than by being able to summon your own spectres? Mana affinity isn't based on the difference in the number of nodes between you and your opponent is it? It's just a straight bonus based on your own nodes, right?

Death mana potentially gives you two sources of Death-immune summons (Skeletons and Spectres), I guess. But Pit Beasts do sound better to me.

[Mafro]

Just noticed plako has no coin for upgrades. Thus, it's warriors versus vampires.

Game over, man, game over....

[GreyWolf]

Now I have to sit idle waiting for the Lacuna timer to expire while the other guys research their way to ICBMs.

Um, people have almost conceded to you at that point...

[HidingKneel]

Now I have to sit idle waiting for the Lacuna timer to expire while the other guys research their way to ICBMs.

Um, people have almost conceded to you at that point...

Yeah, I don't get where Dave is coming from at all. He built a massive army, used it to mostly eliminate the Sheaim, then attacked the Khazad, then the Amurites. Now he's frustrated that the whole world is against him? And that one player has a temporary counter to his massively powerful spectre offense?