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I'd need to run sims yeah but I would definitely guess that it is worth it: Mining means we're still enough on the BW path and as you mentioned Fishing doesn't have to be delayed. Even if we had to delay farming the Rice by a turn or two the Fast Worker speed makes up for it.
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It looks like India is actually a very real possibility with only one civ pick to go before us now, I think even if it did slow us down slightly early game/75H Fast Workers that it is worth going with India on initial thought, I'm bad at making actual world sims (Though if you wanna help and make one...or obviously I just call up WilliamLP again. *Chuckle*) but I'll try to do some Notepad simming later today.
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We'll see what the next pick is, but there's a chance that we could end up as India and as one of two civs with Mysticism. With increased costs of Mysticism, it's entirely possible that we could go for an early religion. I had an idea for that, but it would involve ignoring the fish for a little bit. Something like Agri-BW-Fish and time landing the religion with settlement of the 2nd city. Fast worker farms rice, mines the unforested grassland hill while cap grows on a WB or warrior.
May be inferior to not chasing religion as India or no mysticism with Rome/China/England.
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(April 23rd, 2014, 15:38)wetbandit Wrote: We'll see what the next pick is, but there's a chance that we could end up as India and as one of two civs with Mysticism. With increased costs of Mysticism, it's entirely possible that we could go for an early religion. I had an idea for that, but it would involve ignoring the fish for a little bit. Something like Agri-BW-Fish and time landing the religion with settlement of the 2nd city. Fast worker farms rice, mines the unforested grassland hill while cap grows on a WB or warrior.
May be inferior to not chasing religion as India or no mysticism with Rome/China/England.
Why Agri/BW/Fish and not Fish/Agri/BW?
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Well we're up and shockingly nobody has taken India, but Rome was taken. England doesn't excite me and frankly I think Tokugawa of India is one of the best possible combinations in Tides of War, so I'm going with India. Productive Fast Workers, ho!
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I can't believe India fell to us though...now I really don't want to fuck this game up, even if I am highly unlikely to win with Seven, Mackoti and Lord Parkin in the game, but that's just such a good combo, especially with the #2 slot. With almost everything picked I am going to start typing out my thoughts on the enemy picks.
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Very cool. 
My comment was simply to state that I'm not sure which plan would be optimal without running the numbers. Fishing first has a commerce advantage (probably), but beyond that, I don't really know yet. Even if we go fishing first, I don't know if it makes sense to grow to two before starting the worker.
Subtext: forget opponents, let's run our stuff! 
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(April 23rd, 2014, 18:38)wetbandit Wrote: Very cool.
My comment was simply to state that I'm not sure which plan would be optimal without running the numbers. Fishing first has a commerce advantage (probably), but beyond that, I don't really know yet. Even if we go fishing first, I don't know if it makes sense to grow to two before starting the worker.
Subtext: forget opponents, let's run our stuff!
Alright, well, let's do some very quick Notepad math...I don't have the actual game yet to double check this, so this might be pretty inaccurate. I presume we will be settling in place: I don't see any reason not too. Settling in place and working the Plains Hill gives us 5 HPT, while working the Work Boat it should be boosted to 6 HPT (We're one hammer short of a second hammer boost). A Work Boat takes 30 hammers to complete.
Turn 1: 6/30
Turn 2: 12/30
Turn 3: 18/30
Turn 4: 24/30
Turn 5: 30/30
HOWEVER, we do not start with Fishing, we must research it, though thanks to Tides of War can begin building the Work Boat beforehand. Fishing is 60 beakers: Our base commerce is 9 Beakers Per Turn (8 from the palace + 1 from the city square)
Turn 1: 9/60
Turn 2: 18/60
Turn 3: 27/60
Turn 4: 36/60
Turn 5: 45/60
Turn 6: 54/60
Turn 7: 63/60
So with just the base we will finish it on T7. We also have the option of working a 2 commerce tile, the Coast, to add beakers. However, this seems unlikely to be worth it, as on T6 we end up 6 beakers short and thus would need to come up with 6 beakers, which we cannot do without delaying the Work Boat past when we would get Fishing that I can find. For example, if we worked it for 1T
Turn 1: 11/60
Turn 2: 20/60
Turn 3: 29/60
Turn 4: 38/60
Turn 5: 47/60
Turn 6: 56/60
Turn 7: 65/60 Fishing
For research and
Turn 1: 1/30
Turn 2: 7/30
Turn 3: 13/30
Turn 4: 19/30
Turn 5: 25/30
Turn 6: 31/31
And nothing much changes. However, we would most PREFER that the Work Boat complete on Turn 6: It then moves onto the Fish the same turn and can boat it instantly the turn we discover Fishing while simultanously not letting us miss a turn. This means we have a free turn to work whatever non-Plains Hill tile we want. I would recommend the Rice: The food is more important than the extra commerce of the Fish before the Fish is fished. As for after the WB is completed, I'll need to run some more Notepad Math ™ for that, so gimme a bit and I'll make another post. I can also run numbers on Fast Worker first, but I don't think that will be efficient (The Fast Worker will take 13T to complete with just the Plains Hill, so it feels like it would be superior to get the Fish up first).
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We actually get 5 + (.5 * 5) or 2.5 hammers for productive, rounded down is 7 hammers. This gives the option of working a 1/2/0 tile for part of the WB build to accumulate food.
Also, research is 8 (palace) + 1 (city coin) + 1 (free beaker). Fishing will finish after turn 6.
April 23rd, 2014, 19:26
(This post was last modified: April 23rd, 2014, 19:39 by Kuro.)
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(April 23rd, 2014, 19:15)wetbandit Wrote: We actually get 5 + (.5 * 5) or 2.5 hammers for productive, rounded down is 7 hammers. This gives the option of working a 1/2/0 tile for part of the WB build to accumulate food.
Also, research is 8 (palace) + 1 (city coin) + 1 (free beaker). Fishing will finish after turn 6.
Oh, right, I forgot that you get the free beaker, I'm stupid. You're also right about the Productive bit: I was running the numbers like it was Expansive, which is a 25% boost, and forgot that Productive has a larger boost. In that case...
Turn 1: 7/30
Turn 2: 14/30
Turn 3: 21/30
Turn 4: 28/30
Turn 5: 35/30
For the Work Boat and...
Turn 1: 10/60 (It was actually 59 when I ran a test game but that may be different in the actual game)
Turn 2: 20/60
Turn 3: 30/60
Turn 4: 40/60
Turn 5: 50/60
Turn 6: 60/60
We actually wouldn't want to work the 1/2/0 Coast tile unless I am missing something, because we want the WB to finish 1T before Fishing, right? That way it can boat the Fish the same turn we discover Fishing instead of 1T after.
EDIT: Whoops, I read 1/2/0 as 1/0/2! We could do that to finish the Work Boat on T5 with 1 more food, though, but we do lose some overflow hammers. It wouldn't affect our time to grow to Size 2, either.
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