[SPOILERS] Thoth and Mardoc Pretend Piracy Pays as Pacal of Portugal

[Mardoc]

We could settle on the corn for a 3f/2h start.

Has slavery/granary been changed any from RBMod? This would cost some food, but if food's been nerfed it might be worthwhile to skip Agri for a while.

water stuff

Sounds like the general theme is water is worthless until you get some city buildings? In which case, you probably want cities to have either no water or much water, so the cost per improved tile is lower.

[Thoth]

We could settle on the corn for a 3f/2h start.

Has slavery/granary been changed any from RBMod? This would cost some food, but if food's been nerfed it might be worthwhile to skip Agri for a while.

No changes to granary/slavery from RtR.

and no way in hell I'm going to settle on the only 6f tile in sight

water stuff

Sounds like the general theme is water is worthless until you get some city buildings?[/quote]

Yes.

In which case, you probably want cities to have either no water or much water, so the cost per improved tile is lower.

A bit of water is fine as coastal access allows harbour for boosted trade routes or the shipyard line which boosts production/exp of naval assets. But cities with moderate amounts of H2O will need some thought. Piers can be built anywhere and are desireable in any city that is working riverside tiles. Thankfully, they are dirt cheap at 20h.

[Mardoc]

No changes to granary/slavery from RtR.

Hey, it seems like I'm going to have to check literally everything. Already there seem to be more things changed than not.

A bit of water is fine as coastal access allows harbour for boosted trade routes or the shipyard line which boosts production/exp of naval assets. But cities with moderate amounts of H2O will need some thought. Piers can be built anywhere and are desireable in any city that is working riverside tiles. Thankfully, they are dirt cheap at 20h.

Well, sure, my statement was meant more as a guideline/rule of thumb than a command. 20h for a bunch of three-food tiles does actually seem pretty good for early game, especially if it also boosts all the riverside. I guess it probably requires Fishing?

[Thoth]

Piers and the ability to work water tiles come at Fishing.
WorkBoats require no tech to build, are foodhammer units and are *not* consumed after building nets (which take 4 turns to complete)
Seafood boosts base yield of salt tiles to 0/1/0. Nets add 2 food. Sailing adds +1 food to nets.

So salt Seafood can be 2/1/0 (nets only), 3/1/0 (nets + sailing), 4/1/0 (nets + pier without sailing), 5/1/0 (nets + pier + sailing). Add 2 commerce if a Lighthouse is added to the Pier.

[Mardoc]

Hmm. If I'm reading the changelog right, that's a lake, not an ocean. If it weren't fresh they'd simply be 0 food tiles.

[Thoth]

Doh!

You are correct. Those are lake tiles in the screenie.

So unless the scout shows something tasty in the fog to the east SIP seems to be the way to go.

[Mardoc]

Both sites have 6 forests.

And, wow, that's something else massively changed. Forest preserves/lumbermills seem like they'll make clearcutting no longer the One Right Answer. I'll have to digest it a bit to see which I'll recommend

[Thoth]

Both sites have 6 forests.

And, wow, that's something else massively changed. Forest preserves/lumbermills seem like they'll make clearcutting no longer the One Right Answer. I'll have to digest it a bit to see which I'll recommend

Yeah, Krill has done a great job nerfing chopping without actually changing the chopping mechanics. Chopping is *sometimes* indicated but it's something to be carefully considered as both of the tree improvements (lumbermills and forest preserves) are better tile improvements than the non-forested options. So hammers now + weaker tile vs stronger tiles over time. MP being what it is, I strongly suspect we'll be wanting to do at least some chopping to speed up the early game. Forest preserves (effectively cottages on forest) aren't available until Iron Working and Lumbermills need Metal Casting so there is a non-trivial beaker cost to the hippy improvements.

[Mardoc]

There's another indirect nerf: Slavery is at Archery, which means Bronze is probably not as high a priority anymore.

Edit: Man, there's changes nested within changes. And the indirect effects are as important as the direct ones. This is wild!

[Thoth]

Slavery is at Archery, chopping is at Masonry. Bronze gives +1 hammer to mines (base mine is only +1 hammer) and reveals Copper.

Food specials also have "double unlocks". Pastures are available with Hunting but don't get to full power until Animal Husbandry. Farms gain full power with Pottery.
So lots of tech choices early.

Edit: Man, there's changes nested within changes. And the indirect effects are as important as the direct ones. This is wild!

Yeah, it's massively different from BTS.....some things are probably a bit too powerful (check out the new National Park ability and consider the implications of Industrious being able to build two copies of it)