[Spoilers] AT (Charlie/Mongolia) has a thread. In which he shall post.

[AutomatedTeller]

Here is the starting BFC sandbox for you to look at and start planning, if you choose to do so. This accurately represents what the starting BFC will look like when you load into the game. The file has any strategic resources stripped out (since you would not know those on turn 0).

We reserve the right to make any changes to the BFC, but this is at least very close to what it will look like in game, so should be dependable for planning purposes.

No screenshot for the thread too because that's just time consuming right now for me to go take a picture of each one too.

Link to the starting sandbox: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4491...wordWBSave

thanks, Brick!! this is great. I'll take a pic for my lurkers, never fear. heck, just getting a sandbox pre-built for us is awesome. No complaints here! (unless I'm next to Plako and krill... then I'll complain)

[GermanJoey]

This was with 3.0.0.1.

I should be clear that I don't think that Charismatic and Creative are bad or anything. Any rating system that doesn't rate everything even will come up with lesser or greater. There isn't a charismatic/creative civ leader, but I'd play one if there was. But plako had a chance to throw back Pericles and he did not and he's a lot better than I am

Cha/Cre is Kublai Khan in RtR mod

[AutomatedTeller]

so, my starting position:




not precisely the start I was hoping for, but it's hard to complain about a start when I get 2 3 hammer tiles at size 3 without improvements, plus wet wheat on grass. Heck, at size 2, I make a settler in 8 turns. I could have a second city on turn 24 or so. Only problem is that everything needs a tech to improve. If that wheat was a pig, I'd be in hog heaven. At size 3, that's a 6 turn settler

But I'm not really complaining. Well, I'm kind of sick of coastal starts in PB's. Hard to have a back line when you start on the coast, but then, its' toroidal.

Another thing that pops out at me is that this is a crappy bureau cap. Lots of hills, only 5 cottageable river tiles.

But really, can't complain. 2 strong food sources and 2 luxes, one of which that gives a ton of commerce, isn't bad at all.

The hard question really is - how do I fit a workboat in among the workers and settlers?


@GermanJoey - I forgot about Kublai's change!!

btw - this start is a good indication of why ranking's aren't great. If everyone has a start like this, the creative civs have a very slight advantage, in that they pop borders in 4 turns, not 5, and thus get an extra food-hammer from the ivory. Does it matter? probably not, though they should be able to get their warrior out a turn earlier.

[AutomatedTeller]

wait - is this true? I get the worker out faster going WB->worker than I do straight worker?

I make 5 foodhammers working the wheat (2 food for the city, 2 hammers for hte city, 1 extra food with the wheat). that builds a WB in 5 turns.

I expand and make 6 foodhammers for the worker (2 food for the city, 2 hammers for hte city, -1 food/3 hammers for the ivory) for a turn, then I make 7 foodhammers working the fish (2 food for the city, 2 hammers for hte city, 3 extra food for the fish) - which gets me a worker on turn 10. going worker first gets me a worker on turn 12. (my math may be a little off)

This feels broken to me - heck, with this starts, it's faster to get a worker this way for an expansive civ than it is to just build a worker.

Man, this mod is going to be wierd...


edit - no, it's not true. it takes 10 turns to build the worker, but I get it turn 15. Cuase I'm an idiot and forgot to take into account the 5 turns for the WB

Might be better to go WB first, though, anyway. I think I might win on food and should definitely win on commerce. My tech path might be fishing, AH & pottery before mining & BW!

[AutomatedTeller]

well, so far, workboat, worker, warrior, settler gets me an imporved fish, wheat and ivory, with 2 roads, a settler, fishing, agri, AH, mining and BW by turn 28, with 2 roads connecting the ivory to the capital. Plus a turn into a barracks or warrior. I could put pottery in their and pick up a turn into a granary if I want - I'll have to look at that. Plus 13 commerce and really fast settlers after that or growth into a granary and whipping after that.

Worker->workboat->warrior->settler doesn't get either BW or the settler, quite, by turn 28.

I could get a settler a lot earlier by going worker->warrior->settler, but I don't know if that's the right plan.

[AutomatedTeller]

well, a lot earlier is an exaggeration. Worker->warrior->settler gets me a settler on turn 26, but I'm only size 2. So, 2 turns earlier, but a size smaller. The WB isn't done, much less planted.

Worker->settler seems like a bad plan.

Right now, I'm thinking wb->worker->settler. Tech path is fishing->agri->AH->mining->BW - thus, I know where the resources are before I settle my first city, which is nice. Another option is fishing->agri->AH->pottery->mining->BW. I won't have BW by the time I settle, but I'll be able to grow using the granary and whip out workers/settlers along the way.

[AutomatedTeller]

An interesting option is wb->worker->granary->settler once we hit size 3->granary to size 4 and start whipping workers/settlers with warriors in between. I think the cap could get out 2 more settlers and workers, along with some warriors, by turn 50, along with whatever the ancillary cities can get. We could, conceivably, have 5 or 6 cities by turn 50. beyond that, we need the actual game.

I'm pretty sure optimal play is WB first, no matter what. I think we grow fastest and we get the most commerce.

[AutomatedTeller]

80x100 is 8000 tiles. With 23 players, that's 347 tiles per person. Obviously, a huge number of those are water tiles, but in any case, there should be plenty of open land, making my imp trait really nice It may make sense to grow to a point where the cap is maxed and we work a couple of cottages and pump out settlers/workers.

Also, that will help fuel a fast run to math for better forest chops.

[AutomatedTeller]

I wonder how many times Krill's thread has been a variation on "Krill pisses off other people?"

I should post some pictures of cats to up my thread count. I'm 4th in post count (among civs that aren't playing as a team). No way do I catch Krill or Commodore, of course.

[AutomatedTeller]

oh - if it matters, my techs are fine. I was supposed to start with AH, right?