WW #41. New Horizons.

[Gazglum]

I like the way Lewwyn revealed his night action and zak's play recently.

What is it you like about Zak's play?

[AdrienIer]

From my phone I just remember liking some posts I'll try to find specific things in a few hours

[Serdoa]

Well BRick had his vote on novice and one could expect him to safe himself.

Maybe you liked BRick as a good mislynch-candidate for the next day once the sensor result came in? Or you preferred a free hand to nightkill zak, novice or Lewwyn instead of having to choose between Goreripper and Bacchus?

I'm not certain I understand whom you talk with here Rowain. Are you replying to me? If so, lets go through your reasons why I voted AdrienIer:

1) You think I could have changed to AdrienIer because I hoped BRick would save himself and I could get him mislynched D2.

Possible, but in that case AdrienIer can't be my scum-companion, else I would have killed him with my vote, which seems dumb, just to hope to get a mislynch-target. I think we can agree that this is very, very unlikely. Yeah sure, deep cover and all that, but honestly, latest after mislynching BRick we would have only 3 players including me (of the 5 votes one would have been you) left as scum. With a 6 player total count. I would have to get the other two mislynched before me in order to win. With all the stuff going on at night - and the possibility to prevent lynches as well - that seems definitely harder then simply not sacrificing AdrienIer.

Given that + the result from Lewwyn you'd therefore believe I'm scum with novice or zak. And I think my D1 play is not really leading credence to that theory. Additionally I would have known that one of the voters on BRick is scum, so I would have also known that I can get one of them mislynched instead.

All in all, I think you have to agree, this makes no sense as play.

2) The second option you give is me wanting to nightkill one of zak, novice and Lewwyn.

That presumes that I'm scum with AdrienIer. Please see above why killing him makes no sense in that case. Also, you should vote him in that case, as you know one of zak, novice and him is definitely scum (if you trust Lewwyn, else you should lynch him).

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In general I would also like to add that I'm pretty sure we can all agree that I can come up with a better explanation for my vote than agreeing that it made no sense. If I had that all planned. But I didn't. So at least, please consider that I am indeed town and this was not some sort of scum-ploy. Because currently I feel like all theories go around that point and this is imo massively hampering towns ability to get an understanding on what happened.

Again, I believe that everyone should decide if he believes Lewwyn. If you do that, you should vote AdrienIer, zak or novice with an explanation on why. We know that one of them is scum, while the other triangle (Bacchus, Gaz and me) has some outs to not have a scum included, even if they are slight, they are there.

[Gazglum]

I am not getting particular scum signals on Bacchus or Serdoa, which combined with the lurking from Novice, Zak and Lewwyn is making me consider the possibility that Lewwyn is wrong or lying.

If scum do have a sensor immune character, there could have been 2 scum on Brick.
If Lewwyn and a scumbuddy were both on Brick, they could have decided they needed to risk the fake sensor claim to avoid losing the game.

If Bacchus or Serdoa are scum, I would probably guess Bacchus, just because I am feeling truth vibes from Serdoa. But I haven't reread them in detail yet.

[AdrienIer]

Putting a sensor immune scum when the sensor is a one time power and there are so few people is a big finger to town. It would mean that Lewwyn's night action is completely useless.

[Gazglum]

A point in Adrien's favour:

Last night, Zak and me claim to have been blocked. At this point I am guessing nobody is going to come forward to claim responsibility for either of them?

Goreripper might have blocked one of us, but there is another block unclaimed. That suggests either that one of us is lying, or the second block came from scum. If there are 2 scum, presumably one of them killed Goreripper and one of them used a block.

But Adrien claims to have targetted Serdoa. So if he was the killer (aimed at Goreripper), or the blocker (aimed to Zak or me), either way he would be lying about his target being Serdoa. So, again, he risks being caught by watcher or tracker.

Even if Zak is lying, Adrien is unlikely to be lying too, unless one of them is sensor immune. Otherwise Lewwyn would have seen 2 scum on his scan.

I concede that if you think I am scum, I could be partnered with Adrien.

[Rowain]

I'm not certain I understand whom you talk with here Rowain. Are you replying to me? If so, lets go through your reasons why I voted AdrienIer:

1) You think I could have changed to AdrienIer because I hoped BRick would save himself and I could get him mislynched D2.

Possible, but in that case AdrienIer can't be my scum-companion, else I would have killed him with my vote, which seems dumb, just to hope to get a mislynch-target. I think we can agree that this is very, very unlikely. Yeah sure, deep cover and all that, but honestly, latest after mislynching BRick we would have only 3 players including me (of the 5 votes one would have been you) left as scum.

That's were your fattening me up as sacrificial lamb comes in. Since the start of the game you have spent most of your time arguing that I have hidden special killing powers or that I'm a secret superscum all with abilities not listed in Jabbz master-list.

All of Day 1 you have no voted for Adrien once. 2 mins before lynch you suddenly jumped onto him 'to make it close'. A safe vote if he dies you can put fingers on me, Bacchus, BRick ,Goreripper which are enough mislynches to win already. If he lieves you can help lynch him Day 2 and claim towncred or see if you can't mislynch others first. All in all I call that a win-win situation for you.

No I don't see you + Adrien being impossible or difficult at all.

Who else is the missing scum? Bacchus, Gazglum or Lewwyn? IMO all 3 are less likely to be scum than you.

[Rowain]

Given that + the result from Lewwyn you'd therefore believe I'm scum with novice or zak. And I think my D1 play is not really leading credence to that theory. Additionally I would have known that one of the voters on BRick is scum, so I would have also known that I can get one of them mislynched instead.

What in your play makes it impossible that you are partnered with zak or novice? Or Lewwyn?

[novice]

Just a note to say I probably won't be able to catch up on discussion until tomorrow. I'm on a work event that will be transitioning to dinner and drinks.

[Serdoa]

Rowain, I'm not going to engage in endless discussion about you stating that my vote on AdrienIer could be scum and I telling you why I don't believe it. I already stated it didn't make sense and was a brainfart. So far I have not seen that you could come up with any reason why it would make sense, except for convoluted plays that also don't explain why I haven't voted earlier and why I didn't come up with a better reasoning.

Also, despite you claiming otherwise I think if you actually re-read you will realize that I was set on zak not on you, all of D1. It was actually zak who brought up that I would want to set you up. Before he stated that you didn't react to my posts, but since then you act as if I'm on a personal crusade against you.

Anyhow, you try to make this about me since the second half of D1 and haven't looked anywhere else since with any real interest. I have to assume that either you really believe I am scum - and in that case I can stop arguing with you, because you are not known for actually being open to arguments that don't fit your point - or I am the guy you have to get lynched as VC (because if you don't kill at night, that seems the next plausible idea), which again I can stop arguing because you won't care in any case and it is just lost time.

So, what's it going to be? I know you will vote for me at the second half of D2, trying to set up the wagon. And tbh I'm finished with defending against the same argument over and over again. Either you start helping the village by actually scumhunting for now till you inevitably put your vote on me or you can go on with your personal vendetta and try to make this all about me, despite us knowing that we have a scum for certain within Adrien, zak and novice. Just don't expect me to play along, I have better things to do with my life.