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*sigh* I can't find myself motivated to write big reports anymore. I keep taking pictures like normal ( T156, T157, T158, T159), but I don't end up writing that much about them. I'll try to write something at least 
I finally got contact with Elum on T158, and things aren't that good. We knew he had Nationalism (obviously) and thus Philosophy up on us, but he doesn't have Liberalism yet--he has Education, but also Banking. We also aren't that much up on him, just Engineering. Since I finished Education this turn and can 1T Banking, I'm mostly caught up. The one thing I don't know at the moment is Elum's current research--hopefully I'll get it next turn, and that will tell me if I can try to get the Economics merchant while Elum is heading towards Liberalism, or whether I can try for Liberalism instead (or most likely I'll lose both--I don't know how much the Elum/Grimace war is affecting Elum's tech rate though, even though Elum's still in the GA from Taj).
The other big thing going on is the possible Whosit war--I still think I can take/burn Toby Determined on the declare turn (I have ~16 units: 6 Knights and 10/11 Chariots, and he has 4 units: 1 Axe, 2 Spears, and an Archer), but I don't know if I want to. If I'm declaring, I think I have to this turn--Whosit has 2 turns until he gets Feudalism, after which an declare-turn attack with 2-movers becomes impractical. The problem is that I don't know how much else I could get with my troops (since I don't have near-complete vision like I do with johns--Giffany not being revealed really hurts my planning, and my spy got caught a couple turns ago), and I don't know if Whosit will accept peace quickly. I'll be honest, I'm in one of my Civ lows (tied mainly to the PB18 mess, and my insistence that I actually defend against plako), and I don't really want to get into a big war right now. On the other hand, I'm farther behind Elum than I thought, and need to start making some moves if I want to win. Am I supposed to be fighting the easy war right now (clearly Adrien, especially since he's in a war with ipecac and likely still hurting from the prolonged war with johns) or trying to knock down some of the co-leaders (burning Whosit's Toby Determined)?
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Which war gets you the most bang for the buck? Where do you make the most gains for the least cost? Does this extra gain at a reduced rate get you closer to winning the game than taking a chunk out of another leading civ? I think, generally speaking, that fighting the weaker teams and making the fastest conquest for the least cost is always the right answer unless you're about to imminently lose the game. In that case you have no choice but to deny the victory, even if you don't make up much ground.
If Adrien is still at war (I think he is with ipecac?), it looks like piling onto him may provide the best gain. Just looking at the MFG graph, it looks like you haven't fired a GA recently? And some of the other competitors have. Grimace, adrien (did he build MoM? Looks like a 9t GA), Elum with two, whosit with two, and ipecac. If you haven't fired a GA yet your demos are pretty good. You could use a GA to swarm out a bunch of knights and do some damage. Just a thought.
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(March 26th, 2015, 18:43)Boldly Going Nowhere Wrote: Which war gets you the most bang for the buck? Where do you make the most gains for the least cost? Does this extra gain at a reduced rate get you closer to winning the game than taking a chunk out of another leading civ? I think, generally speaking, that fighting the weaker teams and making the fastest conquest for the least cost is always the right answer unless you're about to imminently lose the game. In that case you have no choice but to deny the victory, even if you don't make up much ground.
If Adrien is still at war (I think he is with ipecac?), it looks like piling onto him may provide the best gain. Just looking at the MFG graph, it looks like you haven't fired a GA recently? And some of the other competitors have. Grimace, adrien (did he build MoM? Looks like a 9t GA), Elum with two, whosit with two, and ipecac. If you haven't fired a GA yet your demos are pretty good. You could use a GA to swarm out a bunch of knights and do some damage. Just a thought. Hooray, I finally got some sort of response! Let's see if I can give something resembling a turn report while answering those questions. Let's start by looking at the military situation:
I'm actually top power for the first time in a while, and I'm clearly not stopping yet (though Universities and Banks should start showing up in building queues soon). Of course, the problem is that the toroidal map means I have a lot of fronts to defend: the northern front at Johnny Oro, the SW front where I finally burned Sabata recently, and the east where I have to worry about Whosit, just to name a couple. Adrien is the obvious target if I want to make big gains (though he's actually passed johns in power, the only city I can take on the declare turn is Johnny Oro, and it's well-defended), but he's also my only neighbor who isn't a threat at all at the moment (both because of the ipecac war, and because of his power deficit). One thing I keep worrying about is that when I finally decide to attack someone (and actually stay at war for more than a turn or two), I'm going to get counter-attacked by someone else. The person I worry about doing this most is Whosit; Grimace is almost dead (4 cities left as of T160) and then he doesn't have many targets left. One thing that could happens is that he goes after johns instead--I'm not sure how extensive the johns/Whosit border is offhand (I know there's johns's crazy city plant, and I think they they have more of a border, but I don't know just how exposed it is). How worried should I be about a counter-attack?
Now, let's look at the GNP and Production graphs to tie into BGN's second point:
I guess if you look at it that way, with not having a Golden Age yet (I think the only Great Person I've gotten was a Great Scientist that went into Rillanon for an Academy--also, Adrien does have MoM; he did an early Calendar beeline for it), I'm still doing pretty well. The only reasons my GNP looks so bad (relatively) right now are the Golden Ages, as well as that I've turned off science for a turn while waiting to see what Elum takes with Liberalism (he actually gets it next turn).
Speaking of tech, I'm coming to another crossroads. Obviously if Elum doesn't take Economics with Liberalism I want to try for the Great Merchant, but until I see otherwise I'm assuming that's what he'll take (and/or he can get there much faster than I can--I should be able to get there in 4 turns at 100% if I min-max things, but I don't know if I can sustain that or if it's even fast enough). Other than that, there are three main choices I'm thinking of: Printing Press for my GNP, Replaceable Parts for my production, or Aesthetics->Literature to unlock National/Heroic Epic (and I don't know if anyone actually has Great Library yet, and/or if it's worth trying for that). I don't know which one gives me the best impact.
One more thing before I go: why does my production always seem to suck? How many workshops am I supposed to be building? Related to this is the mess I have with all my eastern cities--they all share a bunch of tiles, and there isn't much food to go around (I think I have one less food resource than I have cities, and one of those is a plains cow). I've farmed pretty much every tile that wasn't initially improved, and I keep feeling like I have to strike a balance somewhere--the cities aren't worth anything if they only work farms, right? You might want to look in to get an idea of what I'm talking about, and if I can/how to improve it.
The rest of pictures are here as always--again, if anyone has any questions, don't be afraid to ask.
March 27th, 2015, 13:10
(This post was last modified: March 27th, 2015, 13:11 by Boldly Going Nowhere.)
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(March 26th, 2015, 20:53)Cheater Hater Wrote: How worried should I be about a counter-attack?
Much must be risked in war.
Edit: I'm not sure why the link isn't starting at the right time. Go to 1:13 for Denethor's grand pronouncement about taking risk.
(March 26th, 2015, 20:53)Cheater Hater Wrote:
One more thing before I go: why does my production always seem to suck?
Look closely at the MFG graph. Can you identify points where you are not leading in MFG when you control for a civ currently in a golden age? Elum has been ahead, but I'm guessing that is because the golden age allowed him to build many forges. How many forges have you built? I would say only Elum is truly ahead of you in MFG at this point. All others are inflated due to GAs. As for workshop development, I think you've done ok. Continue to build them where you have food to support their use. Guilds brings +1 hammer to workshops too, so you'll want to continue to use them.
(March 26th, 2015, 20:53)Cheater Hater Wrote: Speaking of tech, I'm coming to another crossroads. <snip> there are three main choices I'm thinking of: Printing Press for my GNP, Replaceable Parts for my production, or Aesthetics->Literature to unlock National/Heroic Epic (and I don't know if anyone actually has Great Library yet, and/or if it's worth trying for that). I don't know which one gives me the best impact.
Do you have a unit that has unlocked HE? Do you have a city that is poised to churn out a good number of GP? I think the answer to this is yes, you have the city on the southern coast with lots of food potential. I think you get a good return on investment for both of these in a very short period, and you seem to have the spare production right now to invest in these buildings that will pay dividends for the rest of the game. Printing Press is a good economic boost but you seem to be doing well there already. In addition to that, this isn't a huge map so you won't get the +1 bonus on as many tiles as, for example, a PB18 style map, so the net gain is less. Replaceable parts, same issue. How many tiles will you get the hammer bonus? Anyway, IIRC, the tech path is PP--> RP, so this basically makes your choice Aesthetics --> Lit or PP --> RP. Of the two, I think you benefit more from the Aesthetics line right now.
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Oh right, the golden ages disguise general production lead--I think I'm just being colored from how much my production sucked in PB18/PBEM58, and that's just because I was smaller in those games (which obviously isn't a problem here). I also see a lot more active work towards production stuff from other civs, which adds to that perception.
Yeah, NE is obviously going in Vienna (it has a ton of food, and it's sharing a lot of it to other cities at the moment, but I don't actually know if I have a HE unit at this point. Still, considering I don't need PP right now, Aesthetics feels like the right path (assuming I don't have a chance at Economics).
Speaking of Economics, how do the economic civics stack up in RtR? I know they all got an overhaul, the new Free Market is broken in PB18, and Free Speech is in this category now, but not much else. For example, is Mercantilism a valid option at all, especially considering I'll be losing Adrien as a trade partner if I do declare on him? Or is it worth it to open borders with someone else (right now I only have open borders with Adrien and ipecac)?
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Free market won't be as strong on this map because you share a common landmass with your trading partners. But FM is far and away the best option as soon as you can get it so get there quickly. Open borders with whoever you have a good peace bonus with and who you are unlikely to go to war with soon. You don't want OB with johns or whosit probably for tactical/scouting reasons.
Don't let the issue of trade routes dissuade you from aggressive expansion. Expand in whichever direction is most efficient and adopt a trade policy that supports this strategic plan. I'd just open borders with everyone I was t about to go to war with, excepting the civs I mentioned above.
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(March 27th, 2015, 18:58)Boldly Going Nowhere Wrote: Free market won't be as strong on this map because you share a common landmass with your trading partners. But FM is far and away the best option as soon as you can get it so get there quickly. Open borders with whoever you have a good peace bonus with and who you are unlikely to go to war with soon. You don't want OB with johns or whosit probably for tactical/scouting reasons.
Don't let the issue of trade routes dissuade you from aggressive expansion. Expand in whichever direction is most efficient and adopt a trade policy that supports this strategic plan. I'd just open borders with everyone I was t about to go to war with, excepting the civs I mentioned above. I played T161, and there's not much spectacular there--I did get a bunch of pictures of Adrien's stacks, and they're a decent size, though his stuff near me is almost nothing (just the token force in Tungelae, then a bunch of singleton warriors). He can't see the tile 1E of Strassburg, right? That's my planned staging tile for the upcoming war, which isn't starting for another five turns at the earliest (since it'll take 4 turns for my 2-movers to get to the staging tile, and even more if I'm assuming I want a couple more 1-movers so I can take Tungelae, fortify it with some 1-movers, and keep the Knights moving to take another city or two).
As for open borders, the biggest question is whether or not I want them with Elum--is it good to open borders with my closest economic competitor? Right now he only has open borders with Adrien and johns. Other than that, the only person whose status is undetermined is Grimace, and he isn't that meaningful at the moment (and honestly, might be dead by the time I declare on Adrien  ).
Is there anything else you want to know about BGN (or any lurkers, for that matter)?
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Nope. I'm good. I don't think Rome can see your staging tile but I'd set up a test in world builder to be 100% sure. It's a little hard to see the full terrain from the pic.
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(March 27th, 2015, 21:01)Boldly Going Nowhere Wrote: Nope. I'm good. I don't think Rome can see your staging tile but I'd set up a test in world builder to be 100% sure. It's a little hard to see the full terrain from the pic. Don't forget you can always log in if you want a closer look--I'm not currently in a turn split or anything 
Should I close borders with Adrien? Other than the obvious economic impact, I don't want him to think anything's amiss--even if he does see my troops, he could think they're headed towards johns still.
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T162 has been played, and there isn't much new--I can 1T Literature (which means I need to decide where I'm going next--Printing Press by default I guess? Or do I get Philosophy so I can flip into Pacifism during my Golden Age? There is one possibility I noticed though: no one has Great Library yet! Is it a good idea for me to start building it? I assume I want it in Vienna best case, though putting it in Rillanon gives it the best chance of finishing. I should have a good chance at getting it though; only Adrien has Literature right now, and he presumably has other things to worry about 
Right now it would take 16 turns to build it in Vienna, and I do have a couple remaining forests as well. Obviously I would chop the forest 1W of Vienna, but would I want to chop the Watermill forest 2N of Vienna? I'm assuming so, but I like having a 1/4 tile!
I didn't check in Rillanon, but I'm pretty sure it would be shorter, especially if I work all the production tiles (including all the new ones I just improved there).
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