Gaspar, Lewwyn, et al go full Sartre

[Lewwyn]

Okay I played the turn this time. dtay fortified his warrior. Gaspar suggested we leave the warrior and build some chariots to kill it. I disagreed because we have to wait until his warrior gets full fortify on the hill. That means 50% bonus. The chariot will have 75% odds. I do not want to risk a chariot this early. Better to lose a 15H warrior and kill it, than possibly lose a 30H chariot. Additionally this gets him off our back and lets us scout towards him. Also he doesn't keep vision on what we're doing. So I killed it. Our first warrior almost killed it by itself at 23% odds. And our second warrior cleaned it up.



Warrior at 1.7 health. We'll heal up and then go for the desert hill and maybe explore a bit.

We have graphs on dtay, his power is below our, crop, MFG, GNP below ours. He got BW before us but he has not built and axes or spears or chariots yet.

In the south we have this situation:



I healed in place, if TBS moves south we can kill it as long as he doesn't double move us. I'm looking at you Xenu.

Demos:

We sawpped into slavery this turn. It does not slow down our horses connection and it actually saves us an extra 3 food in Cock since the corn farm finishes next turn.

Cock builds warrior.

Valhalla is building a granary. Gaspar wants to swap the chop from Valhalla's granary to a chariot in Eden, but I don't think that's worth it. Granary is more important in cap. We build it>grow to 6 while building chariot>start and 3 pop whip settler?

Eden is building warrior. Next turn it will put another turn into the warrior and grow to 4, unhappily. T47 we swap to worker, put two turns into the worker. (24H (one turn we need to give the mine to Valhalla to finish the granary in 2 turns)) T49 horses are connected, we 2 pop whip the worker overflow into a chariot which finishes EOT50. What do you think of that Gaspar?

So I want the worker to finish the chop into Valhalla. Also I think next turn is the turn we want valhalla to work the mine. That way Eden grows to four and can work the mine for the two turns its doing the worker. I think the worker that finishes the chop should cottage the river grass.

[spacetyrantxenu]

What are you looking at me for now? I thought you were already on the lookout for me because I didn't give you a gems/gold/silver riverside capital. Now you want me to be on standby as game admin too? You've been keeping up with the pb17 tech thread I assume since you sub for Nakor frequently -- Are you sure you don't want to hire someone else as your game admin?

Admin side spoiler: My game admin resolution outrage timer hasn't hit its cool down yet from the last incident in 17. As a result I'm still programmed to deliver a ghastly and arbitrary decision against the next player to run afoul of my arbitration programming. There are also some variables that I'm not fully aware of how they function but I think it entails splash damage against whoever submits the dispute resolution request. I think it's intended to sometimes shoot the messenger but there may be additional parameters that effectively punish the most vocal map critics. I just checked that list and it turns out you're the leader in the clubhouse in that regard. All that to say you may wish for a different admin because if you guys abuse me in this game like they have in 17 I'm likely to order everyone killed in an unstoppable fit of rage. Or order six players to dogpile the seventh, or some other equally retarded decision so that you guys will hire someone else to clean your laundry.

TL;DR: I think I've been right and proper cured of any future desire to admin a game. The lesson ought to be to never need an admin decision. If you end up needing one anyway be prepared to cut off your own thumbs because that's the kind of wholly unsavory thing I'm liable to order.

[WilliamLP]

Are you guys interested in puerile seventh grade humor involving your third city name?

[Lewwyn]

What are you looking at me for now? I thought you were already on the lookout for me because I didn't give you a gems/gold/silver riverside capital. Now you want me to be on standby as game admin too? You've been keeping up with the pb17 tech thread I assume since you sub for Nakor frequently -- Are you sure you don't want to hire someone else as your game admin?

Admin side spoiler: My game admin resolution outrage timer hasn't hit its cool down yet from the last incident in 17. As a result I'm still programmed to deliver a ghastly and arbitrary decision against the next player to run afoul of my arbitration programming. There are also some variables that I'm not fully aware of how they function but I think it entails splash damage against whoever submits the dispute resolution request. I think it's intended to sometimes shoot the messenger but there may be additional parameters that effectively punish the most vocal map critics. I just checked that list and it turns out you're the leader in the clubhouse in that regard. All that to say you may wish for a different admin because if you guys abuse me in this game like they have in 17 I'm likely to order everyone killed in an unstoppable fit of rage. Or order six players to dogpile the seventh, or some other equally retarded decision so that you guys will hire someone else to clean your laundry.

TL;DR: I think I've been right and proper cured of any future desire to admin a game. The lesson ought to be to never need an admin decision. If you end up needing one anyway be prepared to cut off your own thumbs because that's the kind of wholly unsavory thing I'm liable to order.

I've written this response about 10 times now and this is the nicest one you'll get. I will no longer consider you admin. Please leave our thread and don't post here.

[Lewwyn]

BTW Gaspar I offered dtay a cease fire. If he tries to offer peace treaty don't accept it.

[spacetyrantxenu]

Well that was easy. Cya.

[Gaspar]

BTW Gaspar I offered dtay a cease fire. If he tries to offer peace treaty don't accept it.

Naturally. I'll comment on the game stuff a bit later, when I've had some coffee.

@Xenu - FWIW I understand your feelings. The nonsense that has been pulled in PB17 would be enough to spoil anyone on not only game administration but games and administration individually.

Re: TBS' scout - this is why I would have preferred the blocking move. I'm all for aggressive, but I'm not super interested in testing our opponents willingness to test the boundaries of what they can get away with.

[Gaspar]

t46 was fairly straightforward after dtay's warrior met his untimely demise. Firstly, TBS moved his scout to the jungle S of our warrior. That left us with only slightly better than 50% odds on him. So we did the only logical thing...








This was done basically so he can't get past us to scout. Why do I care about this? Basically, Gavagai has scarred me for life. Anyway, if he moves his scout away, we'll offer peace of course. Lewwyn wants to send all of our units far and wide to scout, but I think I'd like to keep this warrior on the jungled tile SE of his current position as sort of a "YOU SHALL NOT PASS!"








In generic home front news, the horses are being roaded, the corn farm is done, the chop is into the granary at Valhalla (Expansive, I miss you) and will be completed EOT47. Eden grows into unhappy next turn and will start a worker which we'll whip to overflow to a chariot, then finish that warrior for MP. Fishing comes in @EOT, obviously. We're debating between the 2x fish spot or clams next still. The 2x fish is far more important strategically, but the clams city is basically free since it takes copper from Cockaigne and wheat from Valhalla. Its a little tricky because there is of course a question of how much we can get done quickly. We're going to tech Writing after Fishing and we'll want a library done so we can run a pair of scientists but we need settlers and workers and military units... This is where if I was chatting with Noble he'd start lambasting me because I don't have a plan or know what's going on and I'd wonder I'm friends with him. Anyway, grand plans are nice and all but basically the small plan is Eden's new worker will prep to 2x fish, Valhalla's worker will get another cottage down and then prep towards clams while the 2 northern workers will work at getting all Cockaigne's resources connected. Valhalla does a settler to be whipped after the granary. Cockaigne grows on that warrior which will be its MP.



@WilliamLP - Seventh grade humor is what we do here, sir. I mean, I know everytime I see the name I think of the obvious...

What? Is there some other reference I'm missing?

[Lewwyn]

T47 was eventful. As such we made some changes to our plans.



The worker in south is cottaging. Hydra, worker on horses, is roading and pasturing alone, delaying our horses and the worker on corn is roading instead of coming back to help with the horses.

WHY?



ZOMG MY COCK IS A GENIUS! Gold city will be our next city 1NW of the deer!

Also note just how sick that Moai spot is. That's on the priority list as well.

So Eden will whip worker and overflow into a granary. Valhalla will grow to 5 start a settler and 2 pop whip it, (unless it can grow to 6 in 2t which would mean it can 3 pop whip in the same time as the size 5 2 pop whip.) Cock just does its warrior.

Demos:

#1 food.
Tech path currently = Writing> Math> depends...

[Gaspar]

Turn rolled, so I took a poke around. I'll leave it for you to finish up, Lewwyn.

First off, a couple things in the log not mentioned:



TBS built Stonehenge and that's what happens on a lakes map when your scout doesn't die on T8. So it goes. This is MP - Circumnav before any religions are founded. (In fairness, 3 CRE civs here.)

Since there's not a ton else to talk about, here's a jumping off point for a dotmap of the north.




The stuff in the west is a little awkward. I did this draft (and you see the draft piece of it, because after X amount of drawing its easier to just show you guys my screwups than redraw) and the position of western blue was bugging me. So I thought first that we could move clams as shown with the green arrow. But then I realized I didn't get a resource bubble on the corn in the south which made me miss it the first time through. So obviously you move blue E and leave green in place. But of course, we haven't seen south of that and its very likely we're missing seafood somewhere along that coast. So the upshot is - there's not good way to dotmap this. White arrow plus moving clams 1W is probably the easiest way to do this, but the clams city loses a lot of its value if you don't have the wheat overlap. It sort of looks like there might be another tile S of corn, so that could change the calculus as well. Let's get a chariot down there ASAP.

I think ultimately we need to get a unit along the coast down there to make sure of things... but I'm not sure we can plant clams until we figure out how we're capturing wheat and corn in the west. Regardless, I think the two pink hearts are the next two plants, so we have a little bit of time. And the longer we wait on clams, the less critical the overlap with the capital is.

Food for thought.

As far as the turn goes, Lewwyn, 90% gets us Writing in 7t dead on and we can afford it, so let's run 30% this turn and then 100% for the subsequent 6, rather than saving gold at 0%. We might hemmorage a little gpt over the course of this, but basically this gives us a 5g buffer, so I think we'll be fine. Certainly possible dtay or TBS research Writing in the interim.

Worker in Eden gets whipped next turn. Other than that, everythings on target but I left the turn in case you wanted to poke around first - worker actions have not been executed. Also - did you offer TBS the Cease Fire? dtay's still spending EP on us - I think we swap off this turn and hopefully he follows suit. If not - honestly, I'm more interested in TBS's graphs because he's more likely to be a game leader.

That's all I got.