[TECH] Pitboss 38 IT and Tech Issues Thread

[Elkad]

Well if the game continues like this i dont give it more than 30 days..

I suspect an analysis of who has spent the most actual time in the "everyone but me has ended turn" spot would be rather revealing, even if long pauses were included. But civstats doesn't show that. Looking at server logs would be necessary.

Maybe the guy who logged in multiple times per turn the whole first week of May, doing things (evidenced by score changes), and then failing to end turn, only logging back in at the same time every night (2am-ish to me in GMT-6) to end&flip the turn?

[mackoti]

Well if the game continues like this i dont give it more than 30 days..

I suspect an analysis of who has spent the most actual time in the "everyone but me has ended turn" spot would be rather revealing, even if long pauses were included.  But civstats doesn't show that.  Looking at server logs would be necessary.

Maybe the guy who logged in multiple times per turn the whole first week of May, doing things (evidenced by score changes), and then failing to end turn, only logging back in at the same time every night (2am-ish to me in GMT-6) to end&flip the turn?

But that guy never paused the game and when was away asked lurker to play and as well that guy was in turn split with his neighbours wich could had take shoots on his unist and wanted to grant this oportunity to them, so your rant is pointless because you realy dont know what was happening then.

[Elkad]

You are right, I don't know what was going on. Maybe his opponent was playing late? Maybe pushing 183 Knights around is exhausting and requires playing the turn in 5 1-hour sections?

I just know it was noticeable for holding up the turn for 3-4 hours after everyone else had played for multiple turns in a row, despite logging in several times. Even logging in after everyone else had ended turn and not ending turn until another login hours later.

I instigated a long-ish pause & reload once, and even forgot to play my turn (causing a lurker to have to just fake it for me without instructions), so I'm by no means innocent either. Delays happen to all of us. By now we should all be used to it.

[mackoti]

You are right, I don't know what was going on.  Maybe his opponent was playing late?  Maybe pushing 183 Knights around is exhausting and requires playing the turn in 5 1-hour sections?

I just know it was noticeable for holding up the turn for 3-4 hours after everyone else had played for multiple turns in a row, despite logging in several times.  Even logging in after everyone else had ended turn and not ending turn until another login hours later.

I instigated a long-ish pause & reload once, and even forgot to play my turn (causing a lurker to have to just fake it for me without instructions), so I'm by no means innocent either.  Delays happen to all of us.  By now we should all be used to it.

I think you point finger in totaly wrong direction,yes i logged several time becasue i had time to do so and think about the game, but more then that i had to wait for oponent to play his turn as he had unist which could snipe my workers which some luck in batles so i played everithing what i could so when after he plays so i can roll the turn realy fast(was trying to make game faster), but usualy that player was playing in my nights so i went to sleep and wait till morning ti roll the game and that happened just once not several time as there still were player in morning which played after me but you dint nottice that don't you? Once even i wasat Pc preparing to shutdown when i seen my oponent logging in and i waited for a good time like he to finish so i log in and finish hopping there Aretas will play in the morning so i can play my turn faster .  As you migh noticed after that unit didnt was danger for my unit and my war finished i was very fast to finished turns, but perhaps i knew you will bring thin nonsense up so i done that in purpose

[Mr. Cairo]

You are right, I don't know what was going on.  Maybe his opponent was playing late?  Maybe pushing 183 Knights around is exhausting and requires playing the turn in 5 1-hour sections?

I just know it was noticeable for holding up the turn for 3-4 hours after everyone else had played for multiple turns in a row, despite logging in several times.  Even logging in after everyone else had ended turn and not ending turn until another login hours later.

I instigated a long-ish pause & reload once, and even forgot to play my turn (causing a lurker to have to just fake it for me without instructions), so I'm by no means innocent either.  Delays happen to all of us.  By now we should all be used to it.

I think you point finger in totaly wrong direction,yes i logged several time becasue i had time to do so and think about the game, but more then that i had to wait for oponent to play his turn as he had unist which could snipe my workers which some luck in batles so i played everithing what i could so when after he plays so i can roll the turn realy fast(was trying to make game faster), but usualy that player was playing in my nights so i went to sleep and wait till morning ti roll the game and that happened just once not several time as there still were player in morning which played after me but you dint nottice that don't you? Once even i wasat Pc preparing to shutdown when i seen my oponent logging in and i waited for a good time like he to finish so i log in and finish hopping there Aretas will play in the morning so i can play my turn faster .  As you migh noticed after that unit didnt was danger for my unit and my war finished i was very fast to finished turns, but perhaps i knew you will bring thin nonsense up so i done that in purpose

No, it is the responsibility of the aggressor to determine turn order in a conflict. If someone was actually planning on attacking those workers you mentioned, they would have been completely in the right to wait until you played and hit end turn before they play. 

But since you were waiting for them to play, you would have got information from them waiting and not playing their usual time. Isn't that playing a clock game for an unfair advantage?

[mackoti]

You are right, I don't know what was going on.  Maybe his opponent was playing late?  Maybe pushing 183 Knights around is exhausting and requires playing the turn in 5 1-hour sections?

I just know it was noticeable for holding up the turn for 3-4 hours after everyone else had played for multiple turns in a row, despite logging in several times.  Even logging in after everyone else had ended turn and not ending turn until another login hours later.

I instigated a long-ish pause & reload once, and even forgot to play my turn (causing a lurker to have to just fake it for me without instructions), so I'm by no means innocent either.  Delays happen to all of us.  By now we should all be used to it.

I think you point finger in totaly wrong direction,yes i logged several time becasue i had time to do so and think about the game, but more then that i had to wait for oponent to play his turn as he had unist which could snipe my workers which some luck in batles so i played everithing what i could so when after he plays so i can roll the turn realy fast(was trying to make game faster), but usualy that player was playing in my nights so i went to sleep and wait till morning ti roll the game and that happened just once not several time as there still were player in morning which played after me but you dint nottice that don't you? Once even i wasat Pc preparing to shutdown when i seen my oponent logging in and i waited for a good time like he to finish so i log in and finish hopping there Aretas will play in the morning so i can play my turn faster .  As you migh noticed after that unit didnt was danger for my unit and my war finished i was very fast to finished turns, but perhaps i knew you will bring thin nonsense up so i done that in purpose

No, it is the responsibility of the aggressor to determine turn order in a conflict. If someone was actually planning on attacking those workers you mentioned, they would have been completely in the right to wait until you played and hit end turn before they play. 

But since you were waiting for them to play, you would have got information from them waiting and not playing their usual time. Isn't that playing a clock game for an unfair advantage?

From my point of view wasnt a clock game, because at that point making all my moves was double moving him.So no wasnt a clock game.I didnt knew if was abaout to atack or not but i let open that posibility, and when i wasnt in danger to create myself advantage playing faster then him i done so.And  all was about if i played before him i would had got an extra unit on them so the atck was pointles so again my falt i wanted  to be fair game.

[pindicator]

We could do the next pitboss game as Always Peace....

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

You are right, I don't know what was going on.  Maybe his opponent was playing late?  Maybe pushing 183 Knights around is exhausting and requires playing the turn in 5 1-hour sections?

I just know it was noticeable for holding up the turn for 3-4 hours after everyone else had played for multiple turns in a row, despite logging in several times.  Even logging in after everyone else had ended turn and not ending turn until another login hours later.

I instigated a long-ish pause & reload once, and even forgot to play my turn (causing a lurker to have to just fake it for me without instructions), so I'm by no means innocent either.  Delays happen to all of us.  By now we should all be used to it.

I think you point finger in totaly wrong direction,yes i logged several time becasue i had time to do so and think about the game, but more then that i had to wait for oponent to play his turn as he had unist which could snipe my workers which some luck in batles so i played everithing what i could so when after he plays so i can roll the turn realy fast(was trying to make game faster), but usualy that player was playing in my nights so i went to sleep and wait till morning ti roll the game and that happened just once not several time as there still were player in morning which played after me but you dint nottice that don't you? Once even i wasat Pc preparing to shutdown when i seen my oponent logging in and i waited for a good time like he to finish so i log in and finish hopping there Aretas will play in the morning so i can play my turn faster .  As you migh noticed after that unit didnt was danger for my unit and my war finished i was very fast to finished turns, but perhaps i knew you will bring thin nonsense up so i done that in purpose

No, it is the responsibility of the aggressor to determine turn order in a conflict. If someone was actually planning on attacking those workers you mentioned, they would have been completely in the right to wait until you played and hit end turn before they play. 

But since you were waiting for them to play, you would have got information from them waiting and not playing their usual time. Isn't that playing a clock game for an unfair advantage?

From my point of view wasnt a clock game, because at that point making all my moves was double moving him.So no wasnt a clock game.I didnt knew if was abaout to atack or not but i let open that posibility, and when i wasnt in danger to create myself advantage playing faster then him i done so.And  all was about if i played before him i would had got an extra unit on them so the atck was pointles so again my falt i wanted  to be fair game.

This entire issue is fraught with difficulty due to the impossibility of evaluating motives and actions within a context of limited information. Here goes:

• Subjective analysis of situation with game-limited perspective using only one player's information (From my point of view wasnt a clock game)
  
• Insert specific game situation ex post facto that is impossible for other players to verify in real time, or ever due to limited reporting, to judge action with complete information (So no wasnt a clock game.)
  
• Subjective analysis of situation with game-limited perspective using other player's information and unverifiable explanation of opponent.
  

This is precisely why it is so important to play turns wherever possible in such a way as to avoid these issues. If you are in a settling race, have units at risk, or may declare/be declared upon, you need to play your turn as completely as possible, sticking to a clear before/after posture with regard to your opponent. The declaring party must be cognizant of turn order issues and play accordingly to avoid double moves. Cairo is right: It is the declaring party's responsibility to establish turn order. The other party must allow room in the clock for another party to declare. You simply can't wait out the timer every turn and play after everyone else to preclude the possibility of an attack from occurring. 

There is also an equity issue. Some players have more time than others to dedicate to the game. This is fine, and no cause for concern. What causes problems is when frequent logins over the course of a turn make it impossible to establish a window that is clear for an aggressor to declare. Every turn could become a double-move situation if an opponent plays first and then logs in after your play and can adjust based upon your actions. Not to mention the information advantage in manipulating build queues, etc., based upon what is seen. This should be minimized as much as possible. In the event that this is occurring I would expect that a lurker or admin can establish a turn order as needed.

I am not involved in whatever dispute is being discussed and I don't know, generally, where fault may lie, if fault exists. But I do know that it is frustrating to play against players who log in/out constantly and that since it is impossible to really know what your opponents may be planning and how your logins may impact those actions that it is best to minimize the possibility of complicating things needlessly by logging in/out all the time. Log in, look around, log out, sim if needed, log in, complete actions, end turn, let the chips fall where they may. 

Lurkers, if you have specific information that is needed to inform any of these kinds of conversations feel free to chime in, make a ruling, whatever. I'd prefer we limit discussion in this thread relating to specific, in-game details as much as possible, particularly among players.

[Mardoc]

Lurkers, if you have specific information that is needed to inform any of these kinds of conversations feel free to chime in, make a ruling, whatever.

As far as I can tell, the main dispute is how hard to push for turn pace vs. letting people miss turns, with a side order of finger-pointing.  That's a general debate, not about anything specific, even if it was prompted by the recent pace and reload.  

It doesn't look like y'all came to any consensus on this before the game started, and I'm certainly not volunteering to hash out one now.  Way too hard, especially when the more vocal people are the ones with more time, on average.

I'll just appeal to your better natures: please remember both:
a) With a ginormous game such as this, it's amazing that the game moves at all.  You don't know what other players are going through, turn splits, RL, etc, so be forgiving
b) Also remember that there are lots of people eager to play the next turn, so try not to hold up the game whenever you *can* play your turn faster.

[superdeath]

With a ginormous game such as this, it's amazing that the game moves at all.

  although, i would love for the game to be moving a bit faster, i would rather people were able to give the game their all by not missing turns/getting a pause ( Ask for one! ) when needed.