[Spoiler] RB Pitboss #2 - Shaka of Rome

[Kylearan]

Heh, this is exciting! Breaking a NAP so early in the game...I can see the reason why you did it, but it will be very interesting to see if you ever will be trusted again by other players in this game. Maybe by those who see just *how* tempting this situation has been...

*getting popcorn*

[RefSteel]

Hmmm ... looking at CivStats and the timestamp on your post about moving the spear to cover the workers, it appears that Korea didn't log in between the time you first moved the spear and the time you declared war. (Of course, it was well over 9 hours - in fact over 12 - so within the letter of the clearly-defined portion of the rules.) Did you realize this when you declared war? In case you didn't: If you had, would you have waited for Korea to move? And if so, and they moved their worker out of harm's way, would you still have attacked?

I know, I know, too many hypotheticals. I just thought I'd ask....

[Whosit]

Heh, this is exciting! Breaking a NAP so early in the game...I can see the reason why you did it, but it will be very interesting to see if you ever will be trusted again by other players in this game. Maybe by those who see just *how* tempting this situation has been...

*getting popcorn*

Definitely a concern of mine. Though hopefully any mistrust won't extend beyond this game . . . .

Hmmm ... looking at CivStats and the timestamp on your post about moving the spear to cover the workers, it appears that Korea didn't log in between the time you first moved the spear and the time you declared war. (Of course, it was well over 9 hours - in fact over 12 - so within the letter of the clearly-defined portion of the rules.) Did you realize this when you declared war? In case you didn't: If you had, would you have waited for Korea to move? And if so, and they moved their worker out of harm's way, would you still have attacked?

I know, I know, too many hypotheticals. I just thought I'd ask....

You know, that hadn't even occurred to me. I can honestly tell you that before this turn, I wasn't even considering declaring war. And when the rules talked about the 9 hour rule, I guess I thought that applies once war is declared. Geez, I hope I didn't break a game rule and a NAP.

Oh, wait, taking another look at your question . . . ah. Korea move. Yes. I realized that Korea had not yet moved. I decided that if I was going to do this, I might as well get initiative. I hope I didn't break the spirit of any rules by doing so. And, because, I knew that Worker wouldn't be there if I waited.

No response from Korea yet. I wonder if they "are not talking." I hope not. I'd like to work out a clock split or something so neither of us are tempted to do any double moving. I'm pretty sure that they know what is going on. Or have they decided that I'm a lying jerk and that they'll use every loophole that they can to win? Dunno. I dislike it because there's going to be a large chunk of time today when I can't log in. Though I suppose the turn may not even be over by then, the way things are going.

[Whosit]

Just feel like expressing a (hopefully) irrational fear that's been developing. If plako has a Chariot in the right spot, he could make a double-move and take Carida. And he'll know Carida is empty because P'yong's borders give sight into the city.

Of course, this requires that Korea has a Chariot, and that plako will perform a double move.

The first is possible. There was one thing that was built awhile back that I haven't been able to account for yet.

The second? I don't believe either player is dishonorable, but they are certain to be mighty angry. I'm worried I got them thinking that "all is fair . . . ."

Anyway, that's all. Just wanted it on the record.

[Jabah]

You were not at war the first turn AND there was more than 12h so definitively no double move to me (according strictly to the rules).

[Whosit]

You were not at war the first turn AND there was more than 12h so definitively no double move to me (according strictly to the rules).

But what are you guys really saying about me in the no-players thread?

Just kidding.

[MWIN]

I was rooting for you till this point :neenernee. Somebody in lurkers thread said, slow moving of turns is getting to you in making crazy decisions....

[Whosit]

Well . . .

Dear Whosit of the Romans,

We have heard of your war with the Koreans. They told us that you broke a NAP when you declared war. We believe that this is bad and most likely so does most everybody in this community. We think that while in the short run it may be worth, it will very severely hamper you in the long run. If you want to wage war on the Koreans, which is not unreasonable at all from your point of view, you don't need to break a NAP, just use aggressive Praetorians or even axeman.

We believe that if you choose to continue this war your reputation will be damaged forever. We, the Ottomans, don't want this to happen. We had good relations so far and we want to continue along this way, and even align our civilizations closer further down the road. This will be difficult however if your reputation is stained as we would become guilty by association.

We have talked with the Koreans and proposed to try to broker a peace between you and them. They want to participate in these peace talks that would restore your reputation. We think this is a good idea that would benefit you in the long run. If you are interested, let us know and we can pass the message along, or even better you can contact them directly.

I am sure that there's not much liking between your nations at the moment, however for what is worth, Broker is one of the closest and loyal allies you can hope for based on my experience in the RBP1.

The choice is yours on how you want to continue your relationship with them, but whichever way you choose, please reconsider the current war. I repeat myself here, but let me say it again: the damage to your reputation is not worth whatever gains you may get, particularly that you have quite a bit of land to expand into.

Best,
Kalin for Team A/K of the Ottomans

OK, so maybe this wasn't the best idea after all! Now I'm not sure what to do at all.

Hmm, maybe I'll negotiate through the Ottomans. I may be willing to return to the status quo and return Korea's Worker as a show of good faith. My claim that I believed they were preparing to attack isn't even a total lie, given my rampant paranoia!

[Whosit]

My reply . . .

Dear Kalin,

If the conditions surrounding this war are of a concern to you, then it is a concern to me. I did break a NAP. It was set to expire soon, though I realize that is not an adequate excuse. I chose to attack at this point in time because I have reason to fear that the Koreans were preparing a stronger army to face me. However, I value my international reputation, and will be willing to negotiate, though at the moment, I feel it might be best if the Ottomans act is intermediaries, as I am not certain that direct discourse between myself and the Koreans will remain . . . civil.

Please pass this along: I will be willing to call for a cease fire, and will return their Worker (as a gift, if possible, otherwise I will let them recapture it) as an act of good faith. I am not sure what sort of a longer-term agreement would be suitable to the both of us. I do have some concerns over the territory to my north, however.

As a direct question to the Ottomans: Whether or not I come to temporary agreement with the Koreans, would it even make a difference in the international eye if I resume this war at a later point? I have clearly shown my hand to the Koreans, giving them a chance to prepare if a cease fire is called. I am uncertain that relations can be repaired enough for the Empire to feel secure.

Best regards,

Whosit, Galactic Emperor

A hasty reply. Yeesh, just when I had finally rationalized my decision to myself. Of course, now I've actually offered a cease fire, so I don't think I can pull out of that, unless plako sends troops into my territory.

I probably, really, should have just waited 7 turns. Perfect storm of opportunity, paranoia, and reasonable fears. And ruthlessness. Let's not forget the ruthlessness. Yeah, I'm definitely the villain here. I'm sad to give up that Worker, though.

I really, really want to find some way to keep plako from getting that Copper, but there's probably no way they'd agree to anything like that, especially now. Argh, I really stepped in it. Tch.

Yup. Chances are that I'll be asked to sign a new NAP or something. I dunno. We'll see what comes up. Preferably, I'd be willing to wait out the last few turns, and tack on 10 more as a penalty, or something . . . . but I guess I've got it in my head to eliminate the Koreans, so I dunno if I obsessed over that too much. I don't doubt what Kalin said, though. I'm sure that Broker and plako are nice, honorable guys. OK, enough ranting. I'll probably get another response soonish.

[Whosit]

Another swift reply:

Dear Whosit,

Thank you for the quick response. We will pass your message along to the Koreans, who messaged me a couple of times saying that they are ready to discuss peace.

If the conditions surrounding this war are of a concern to you, then it is a concern to me. I did break a NAP. It was set to expire soon, though I realize that is not an adequate excuse. I chose to attack at this point in time because I have reason to fear that the Koreans were preparing a stronger army to face me. However, I value my international reputation, and will be willing to negotiate, though at the moment, I feel it might be best if the Ottomans act is intermediaries, as I am not certain that direct discourse between myself and the Koreans will remain . . . civil.


We would be happy to serve as intermediaries at least to jump-start the discussions. I do suggest however (will suggest to the Koreans as well) that you make some efforts to start communicating directly. At the very least, the negotiations will move along faster.

This is my personal opinion by the way, but breaking a NAP looks very bad. I am glad you are willing to discuss peace now and goover this mis-understanding. I understand your concerns and will pass them along.


Please pass this along: I will be willing to call for a cease fire, and will return their Worker (as a gift, if possible, otherwise I will let them recapture it) as an act of good faith. I am not sure what sort of a longer-term agreement would be suitable to the both of us. I do have some concerns over the territory to my north, however.


I think that this message is a great start!

As a direct question to the Ottomans: Whether or not I come to temporary agreement with the Koreans, would it even make a difference in the international eye if I resume this war at a later point? I have clearly shown my hand to the Koreans, giving them a chance to prepare if a cease fire is called. I am uncertain that relations can be repaired enough for the Empire to feel secure.


I think that nobody would mind if you declare them war later as long as you don't break a NAP. This is again my personal opinion. From my perspective, if you declared them war exactly when the NAP expired, all would have been fair. You may choose to have good relations or make war to the Koreans, just don't break NAPs or other formal agreements

Best,
Kalin of the Ottomans for Team A/K

I'll probably send a brief message to the Koreans a little later today.

Now that I think about it, returning the Worker is about as much as a concession as I think I should give, though I suppose I'll put a brief extension of the current NAP on the table. Maybe T66 + 5 + 1 turn for the period in which we were at war. So they would have until T72 to prepare . . . . Not a bad deal for them, honestly. At least now they'll know that I'm coming. =(