The work boat discovered a couple of new tiles, didn`t find more food. It`s ready to net the fish next turn. The warrior near Joey moved one extra tile SW and found a plains hill silver. There really isn`t much food down there.
I decided to let the warrior stand 2SW of Muqa, waiting for the border pop next turn. Actually it could be moved into the city, to gain a bit of extra fortification bonus in case dtay is attempting something sneaky. Btw, his mfg took a huge hit. Any idea what happened there? I sure hope he didn`t whip out a swarm of Impis to come our way.
(June 17th, 2017, 14:53)JR4 Wrote: TURN 51
Btw, his mfg took a huge hit. Any idea what happened there? I sure hope he didn`t whip out a swarm of Impis to come our way.
Would there be a turn's delay on the power graph? I guess so... are there any low cost adjustments you can make just in case? A turn of an axe in a queue that you might want anyway to avoid dry whipping?
I'm really enjoying following this thread. I wish I had more time to follow the details (most of the lack is down to my current MOO habit - being unfamiliar with the mod doesn't help). The discussions are really useful for those of us still trying to improve our Civ IV.
It may have looked easy, but that is because it was done correctly - Brian Moore
Shallow_thought: I`m really glad you`re enjoying the game so far! Hopefully the Mongol Empire has a glorious future. As noted a bit earlier in the thread, the first real wars can`t be that far away. We should probably see a lot of action when that happens.
So, I logged into the game for a third time. You get really scared of ghosts playing MP civ! The second warrior was moved into Muqa, just in case. We really shouldn`t take any chances with that city.
I`m no expert at reading graphs, but I think a power increase by dtay would show up next turn. On turn 52 (next turn) Muqa will expand its borders, so we`ll have see an incoming army coming miles away (4 tiles that is!). If dtay were to take the second half this turn and move two impis in range of Muqa, we might be in trouble. I think we`ll still have well over a 50 % chance of holding the city, since he`d need to win both battles to take the city, and our warriors would get +20 % cultural defense.
Investing a few hammers in an axe and a spear in Muqa is certainly a good plan, as the dry whip penalty is really huge in rtr mod. Also, I checked how much it costs to upgrade a warrior to a stronger unit. 80 gold! That`s... expensive. We`ll try to build the units we need instead of upgrading old units.
On dtay's MFG drops: Those are contemporary with whips on consecutive turns (T48 and T49) and his power did not increase following the first one. He's not going to take Muqa any time soon. We have the second-highest Power rating in the world, are completing another axe at Muqa in two turns, and the highest ranking isn't dtay (nor GermanJoey). If he has more than one Impi, the second one is a long way away. We had a narrow window of vulnerability, but it's closed - at least for the present.
For Muqa's defense: In the unlikely event that we open Turn 52 to see an Impi or a Chariot near Muqa, then sure, leave both Warriors in the city. Otherwise, if you want to maximize Muqa's protection, move the newly-arrived Warrior up to act as sentry: Maybe N-NE to the cows, then NE to the forest to watch for activity across the lake, and maybe then W to the copper tile to keep eyes on that area from a better defensive position.
On Iron Working: It is indeed very expensive, and clearing jungle is labor-intensive on top of that. I'm not sure if we want to pursue it before Sailing (or Writing) here. Also note we don't need Mysticism until at least turn 59 or so; it might be worth saving gold for now (at least for another turn).
On cities 4 and 5: The Settler for our fifth city will be produced by Muqa on turn 60, according to the plan I'm looking at right now. The plan I posted above assumes our fourth city will be the pig/corn site, founded T58 with the help of a chop, and would initially have two Workers supporting it. With a very slight modification toward the end of the above microplan, City 5 could then be founded on the E-of-the-river spot T63 or T64 with one Worker supporting it (the Worker couldn't start imrpoving tiles until T64 either way). But here's another alternative: The Settler from Borte could found the southern (E-of-river) city on T60 without a chop, with two Workers supporting the new city immediately. The NW pigs/corn city could then be founded by the Settler from Muqa on T61 with one Worker supporting it (also immediately). This would require changes to the posted microplan starting on turn 53.
(June 18th, 2017, 02:59)RefSteel Wrote: We had a narrow window of vulnerability, but it's closed - at least for the present.
For Muqa's defense: In the unlikely event that we open Turn 52 to see an Impi or a Chariot near Muqa, then sure, leave both Warriors in the city. Otherwise, if you want to maximize Muqa's protection, move the newly-arrived Warrior up to act as sentry:
On Iron Working: It is indeed very expensive, and clearing jungle is labor-intensive on top of that. I'm not sure if we want to pursue it before Sailing (or Writing) here. Also note we don't need Mysticism until at least turn 59 or so; it might be worth saving gold for now (at least for another turn).
On cities 4 and 5:
I adjusted the slider to 100 % tax. We make 19 gold per turn. Writing and sailing are currently 6 turn techs. Iron Working is 11. Our tech rate is about to get a lot better, so we`ll be able to shave off a few turns on IW at least.
Finally we look to be safe from an early dtay attack. We could use one (expendable) warrior as a sentry. After the axe in Muqa is completed, the other warrior should go to our corn pigs site NW of Borte.
It`s very logical to build the settler to our NW spot in Muqa, not Borte, as it`ll use a lot of turns getting down to our border with Joey. Even if it means a slight delay in getting the NW city up to speed, I think the faster border plant is worth it. Is there anything in particular I should look out for next turn?
Next turn is Turn 52, right? I believe the first change in the microplan posted above would come turn 53. I'll try to post an update sometime tomorrow (for me, so your today or tonight). I am very much in agreement with what you wrote above. The argument for Iron Working is basically that if there's as much Iron spread around as there is copper and horses, it's going to give us a lot more good tiles than just the gems and (our riverside city-to-be's) copper. Sailing is obviously for the whales and islands, while Writing is mostly to start the path to Math and Currency (though libraries would be nice when we can fit them in....)
One thing to look out for is Buddhism getting founded in the event log (may already have occurred by now if we haven't been checking). It shouldn't still be available by the time we finish Myst, and we might not pursue it anyway even if it is (because the beakers would be ~wasted if we don't found the religion) but it would still be good to know....
Finally, Muqa expanded its borders. The first barbarian is seen. It could have spawned in a much worse spot, and will not do us any harm. As expected, no zulu units were any close to Muqa. Well, it`s good to be 100 % sure. We`re currently first in crop yield! Admittedly not by much, but at the very least we`re competitive right now.
Our scouting warrior in the SW moved a tile back, as we`ve got to keep a close eye on Joey here. Note that the worker is building a road on that corn, so he can move a settler directly from Seven Mysteries to that hill spot we`re trying to invalidate with our plant E of the river. I still think it would be crazy if Joey were to settle up on us like that with his third (or fourth) city. Well, let`s see if he will get away with it.
Oh, and yes, I misread the turn numbers. I followed the existing micro plan this turn (52). Also, Buddhism still hasn`t been founded! I put 100 % science back on, but we could save gold for a turn or two to have more flexibility.
Good call starting the scouting warrior back. We'll need a plan for dealing with GermanJoey in this region, and having a unit around there soon will definitely help. Turning science up to 100% is also most likely the right move, since depending on what we tech after Myst, we might not have to go back to 0% until that tech is complete.
There is theoretically a chance that GJ is actually roading the corn for the health bonus! He's Cha and not Exp, seems bent on growing his cities, and has Pro granaries (and Seven Mysteries isn't on fresh water) so it's not impossible ... but I agree we have to assume he may be preparing the road so he can settle against us very aggressively. If that's the case, he could have a settler on that hill tile as soon as next turn, as you observed. If he does, or otherwise plants there before we can found our riverside city, what would our response be?
I'll try to update the microplan in a few hours; I think the only change from the posted plan - apart from military movement - is that the Worker from the furs would go directly to the floodplain, put a turn into the cottage there, and cancel orders. I'll go over it in greater detail later on to be sure.
A military option: We could start a chariot instead of a granary at Borte this turn. It wouldn't delay the Settler unless we complete the chariot first, and would otherwise complete the chariot the turn after the Settler. The problem of course is that it would delay the granary, but this might be worth it if we want to threaten GermanJoey. (I doubt if we'll be attacking.) I'm coming around to your idea of showing him an axe: If he knows we're willing and able to fight over that hill site, he might (build more military and) think twice about placing it there (at least as soon as he otherwise would). I think we have enough spare happiness at Borte right now to just move the axe out (say SW-SE to the roaded hill) this turn. If GJ moves a settler onto the hill next turn though, I'll be sorry I spoke against the idea earlier.
I'll add an updated microplan (or edit one into this post) when I have one ready.
Ok, so I`ve just spent half an hour in the game to get a better grasp of the border situation with Joey. He whipped Seven Mysteries this turn from 5 to 4. There is a real chance of him going for that hill plant. In fact it`s even worse for us than it seemed at first. His supply lines from his existing city will be shorter than ours from Borte or Toregene.
1. It`s very hard to attack if he can get a metal unit in there.
2. It has more vision over the surroundings than I thought. Those lakes don`t work in our favor.
3. Making defensible cities for us will be much harder if he builds his city first.
I think we at the very least have to threaten Joey with real units asap. Would it be an overreaction to start chariots in both Borte and Toregene? Joey won`t have vision of that spot 3W of Toregene. We could station a chariot or two on that tile, then move 2S on the next turn, threatening his city. Also, the slow movers could move south, crossing that river. It would still give him two turns of warning.. I agree with moving the axe towards Joey this turn.
