New EitB PBEM

[Qgqqqqq]

Yeah, I'm still keen on this (in Salem now, ~2 weeks till I get back).

If we have lairs and dungeons, I don't mind leaving huts off.

Other advice:

• The issue with cultists/lakes is primarily about the number of land tiles they have adjacent to them/the proportion of conflict regions they cover. Little lakes expand those enormously (plus give safe havens for cultists, but not as big an issue) so should be avoided. Relatedly, fast-moving water units (galleys start with access to 4 moves, pre mobility, Lanun, and a level one spell) so you should avoid a scenario where players are likely to be overexposed on the coast. E.g. a squat landmass with coast but where <20% of the average empire is on the coast seems reasonable, and where border regions are not dominated by water adjacent tiles (it's fine if part of the border has a lake, but it shouldn't be all of it).
  
• Early game resources/commerce don't matter as much if we go for the extra techs we did last one, but note that food is relatively less important (as long as irrigation is available), commerce is a bit more important (and calendar/wines are available pretty quickly), and forests can be a bit of a stranglehold. Animal husbandry and fishing resources have an asterisk next to them.
  
• Irrigation is quite important generally, and can make and break a city. Note that tundra can't chain irrigation. Desert is less bad as it can be sprung.
  
• Strategic: 1-2 mana each. I'm slightly partial to typed mana, though it doesn't generate naturally so wait for others on that. I'd be inclined to 1 safe mana and one contested. Copper, iron, mithril, gunpowder, horse, incense, reagents should be safe with each player (even though half don't really matter. There are some civ-specific strategic resources - deer, gems, pigs come to mind, but honestly I'd suggest just checking those after civs are selected.
  

A random other idea: while I liked the juices start last time, it might have been a little too quick for some things. What would ya'll think if we instead all had the first ring techs (exploration, ancient chants, agriculture, crafting) plus one second ring tech based on the civ? For instance, Hippus could choose to start with animal husbandry, Malakim with Mysticism, etc. Plus a worker.

My main feeling was that some of the early military plus religious techs were too easy to get to.

[coldrain]

I'm still interested in this game. Settings and game balance ideas by Q look good to me.

Also, no problem for me to wait for all potential players to be available to commit to the game.

[Aurorarcher]

Still up for this.

I like Q’s starting tech idea.

[RefSteel]

So, to make sure I understand what's being asked for: Some of these are in response to Q's post, but I'd appreciate responses from anyone with an opinion (and preferably at least an "anything's fine" from those who don't care).

1) Settings: Quick Speed, Emperor difficulty, No Tech Trading, No Vassal States, No Goody Huts, No Espionage, Blessings of Amathaon, Living World, Wildlands, No Acheron, and No Orthus. (Also note this means normal barbs and Unique Features are on, but not all are present.) If any of this is incorrect, it's all easy enough to change, so please say so! (If you don't want resources as lush as "Blessings" makes them, that'll take a bit more work than the others, but there's still time.)
2) Mana availability, just to make sure I'm understanding correctly: We're talking about less than a dozen total mana nodes spread across the entire map, which may be some combination of typed and/or raw, and of which only one for each player is necessarily in a "safe" spot for them. Note that to the extent I use typed mana, I will make no effort to balance access to "better" or "worse" mana types, because I don't know how or where I would even start - so if there are types you don't want to see placed where some of your opponents might be able to reach them when you can't, please say which ones!
3) If we're going with Q's starting tech suggestion, we need more than two examples: Which free second-column tech would each of the 18 possible starting civs receive? Also, fair warning: This map is not going to be tightly balanced; I don't know FfH well enough to do that (especially since I don't even know yet what techs players will start with: It's the difference between being able to improve your best tiles with your free Worker from T0 and needing to wait for hundreds of beakers of tech to come in before key resources can be improved!) - I'm hoping it'll be fun for everyone to play on; that's about the best I can do!
4) Which version of the mod are we playing with? (Q mentioned some changes to the one used for the previous game, e.g. reverting elven workers to their older historical workrate, but I haven't seen a new one posted. Detailed "how to make sure everyone really has the same/correct mod installed" instructions would surely help too!)

[Qgqqqqq]

(1) looks good to me, unless someone likes Monarch or dislikes Wildlands.
(2) everyone should have one untyped mana. Beyond that perhaps either use the same (e.g. Metamagic) or use the unique features which come with mana.
(3) I figure everyone can choose the tech where there is a choice following from their primary (e.g. Hippus normally start with agriculture, and can choose between calendar and Animal Handling).
(4) I've made no progress on a new version, so assume we're just using the old one (linked in the last thread) unless I have a sudden burst of energy the second I get home. I'll post instructions and links when I get back.

[RefSteel]

Cool; still hoping for others to voice agreement or disagreement!

On 3:  So it sounds like no one would be allowed to choose Education as their free tech, right?  (Because it requires Agriculture AND Ancient Chants as prereqs and even though all civs will start with both in this game, no one has both as their normal starting techs.)  And a civ that would normally have no starting tech at all still would get all the first-column techs but wouldn't get a free one from the second column, right?  (Whereas the Lanun, who start with both Exploration and Seafaring, would have the same choices as any Exploration-start civ - Fishing, Cartography, OR Hunting, not Fishing PLUS one of the others, I assume...)

And 4:  For what it's worth, I can do basic XML and maybe python stuff; e.g. if all that's needed is reverting elf workrates, that should be easy to do if desired.

[Miguelito]

I'm still up for it,  and have no objections to the proposed rules.
Although on typed mana- if it's metamagic, would that make floating eyes available to everybody who can secure a source and build an adept?
Also if it's death,  does it allow to summon skellies without Necromancy tech? If so,  I'd suggest avoiding those with top tier level 1 spells like Body, Death, ...? (I don't really know what counts as top tier besides Body and Metamagic)

[Quagma Blast]

Typed mana nodes don't allow access to mana on their own, you still have to be able to build the appropriate mana collector to use it. This can be seen with the world features that provide mana and also act as a legendary dungeon, like the Broken Sepulcher or the Seraphic Pyre. If you explore one and get a result that destroys the dungeon, you lose access to the mana until you get an adept to run over to it and build a harvester.

[Qgqqqqq]

What Quagma said. Though that does mean that if you have the Sepulcher theres no need for necromancy.

And yes Ref. Don't worry about modding.

[RefSteel]

Typed mana nodes don't allow access to mana on their own, you still have to be able to build the appropriate mana collector to use it.

Turns out this isn't true: Not only do the world features act as mana sources, so do forts (built by workers - all you need is Masonry) on typed-mana tiles. As such, I will not be putting the Broken Sepulcher, nor any other typed Death, Body, Ice, or Meta magic in any location that isn't reasonably accessible to everybody. If there are other mana types anyone wants me to add to that no-go list, please say so!