RB Pitboss #3 [SPOILERS]- Suryavarman II of England

[haphazard1]

I find it difficult to rely on "should be" with Sullla making the map. But overall we should be safe for a few turns, both from fellow civs and from barbs.

Maybe SW-SW, then SE or E? We should get some more tile visibility as our borders pop. Maybe there will be some hills to improve the view.

Now that we are founded, we should check our victory conditions for Domination for a first approximation of the total land tiles on the map. The settings call it a Shuffle, but with map editing and other customization I am not sure what the total map height/width should be.

Do we want to designate a turn player for these early years, or shall we just have whoever is available move the warrior? Maybe leave a sign indicating where he was last to keep our movements efficient?

[antisocialmunky]

Keep him about 2 turns away from home. I'd be very wary of something coming over those hills to the North after 7ish turns. I guess that's my fault :-p

[Cyneheard]

7 turns is too soon to be worried. This is a huge map; it has more room on it than RBPB2, where it was still 10 tiles to one's nearest neighbor. So after 10t, we should be close enough to get back to the capital? A healthy dose of paranoia is a good thing, but 7t is a little too soon to be worried.

I like the sign idea. I think whoever is around when we're going to play can go ahead. Don't expect me to be around on Wednesdays, feel free to play the turn without my input.

[antisocialmunky]

Alright, should we do SE-E and get on top of that hill?

BTW - Did we want to enforce any lurker rules specifically?

[Speaker]

Good luck wtih your game guys. I already approve of your first decision. Being able to work the three-food tile right away, before your border pops, can be really important, and gives you a good amount of flexibility in your opening.

[Cyneheard]

Alright, should we do SE-E and get on top of that hill?

That's impossible for the warrior (there's no hill there), and we've moved and settled already.

Thanks, Speaker, for the vote of confidence.

[haphazard1]

This is a huge map (and low sea level as well), but we have significantly more civs in this game than PB2. I do not want to assume they are going to be further away than 10 tiles -- they might actually be closer. Getting an idea of the total size of the map and total number of land tiles will be helpful. Once the next turn starts we need to check our score and domination percentage for a first approximation on these.

With CRE we should pop borders in 3 turns (I think...rarely play normal speed). So let's move our warrior to clear fog outside the radius we will soon see anyway. I think that means maybe 2 more moves SW, then circle back to the southeast and east. But I think we probably want him heading home no later than about turn 12 or so. I prefer safety (paranoia? ) over the extra handful of tiles a warrior could scout with a few more turns. We will get more units out exploring soon.

I also add my thanks to Speaker -- I have enjoyed lurking your thread in PB2, hopefully we can provide some entertainment in return.

[Cyneheard]

I just double-checked, and our domination stats updated automatically, so prepare for some mathcrafting.
We have 0.22% of all the land. This works out to 4091 tiles +/- 90 (thanks to rounding. Precisely 4000 tiles would be 0.225 exactly, and should round up. Will have better figures after we expand our borders again). I think we're better off assuming that this map is almost purely land, it makes the total map size smaller. Also, am assuming toroidal wrapping.

11 palaces have been settled, and our 10 opponents have 89 land tiles between them, so 1 freshwater lake, most likely.

Assuming equal spacing of players, a Player A would then have 4000 / 17 = 235 tiles that are "theirs", where Player A is closer to that tile than any other player. A 15x15 square is 225 tiles, and therefore I think we want our warrior in range of our capital on turn 15, meaning 1 tile outside our borders. Even though our nearest neighbor is only 7-8t from the edge of "their" territory, it would be another 7-8t to our territory, and that's assuming they happen to travel in the exact direction of our capital.

Also, a demographics screen note: Manufacturing is base hammers, before bonuses (such as expansive workers). Someone is working 4 hammers, and therefore will likely have a worker in 12t total (as EXP). But we can get ours in 13t, if we switch to the PH once our borders pop.

[haphazard1]

I just double-checked, and our domination stats updated automatically, so prepare for some mathcrafting.
We have 0.22% of all the land. This works out to 4091 tiles +/- 90 (thanks to rounding. Precisely 4000 tiles would be 0.225 exactly, and should round up. Will have better figures after we expand our borders again). I think we're better off assuming that this map is almost purely land, it makes the total map size smaller. Also, am assuming toroidal wrapping.

I think we will have to see on the wrap. Once we have a second city we will be able to see distance maintenance costs, and can then check against different wraps to see what matches.

For the land number, this is a good starting figure. I think you can also hover over our score, and there is a "X/Y" type figure for the land. But I may be remembering this incorrectly.

11 palaces have been settled, and our 10 opponents have 89 land tiles between them, so 1 freshwater lake, most likely.

Sounds good. I do not think we would see some teams with coastal starts and others land-locked. Too uneven. So assume land starts everywhere.

Assuming equal spacing of players, a Player A would then have 4000 / 17 = 235 tiles that are "theirs", where Player A is closer to that tile than any other player. A 15x15 square is 225 tiles, and therefore I think we want our warrior in range of our capital on turn 15, meaning 1 tile outside our borders. Even though our nearest neighbor is only 7-8t from the edge of "their" territory, it would be another 7-8t to our territory, and that's assuming they happen to travel in the exact direction of our capital.

This could be affected by non-land tiles, if there is a significant amount of water on the map (currently unknown). But the average distance between capitals would only go up if there are water tiles. So something like 15 tiles between capitals, assuming no one wanders for a few turns a la Li Ping. Not bad for 17 civs -- I guess the low sea level helps a lot.

That gives room for each civ to have a first ring city with no overlap to either the capital or the next civ's first ring city. With tighter spacing you could fit more, of course. But I think we have to assume that anything beyond our first ring is likely to be contested by our neighbors.

And you are likely correct that we have a bit more time on the warrior. In fact, if we plan to build another warrior once the worker finishes (not decided yet, but one possibility) then we could just keep our current guy scouting. There might be a brief window of vulnerability (worker done T13, then warrior built in maybe 5-7 turns), but as you say it would require someone to beeline their warrior to our capital.

Also, a demographics screen note: Manufacturing is base hammers, before bonuses (such as expansive workers). Someone is working 4 hammers, and therefore will likely have a worker in 12t total (as EXP). But we can get ours in 13t, if we switch to the PH once our borders pop.

Useful info. And I think we should switch immediately once the border pops. Need to start improving tiles as quickly as we can.

We may or may not be getting it right, but this C&D stuff is fun.

[Cyneheard]

So, SW for our warrior once the turn flips over?