[SPOILERS] - Tredje and Mardoc are Sheelba of the Clan of Embers

[Tredje]

Aye, from the looks of it I will have tons of time to play the save.

If you were to be around for some time during the blitz I'd appreciate it. Even if it isn't directly FFH2-related, I still value your input. Besides, it is a lot more fun to play when you can discuss the game with someone.

I agree that we want to stock up 50 gold in case of events, because missing out on a free Great Prophet or something of the sort is infuriating. If we can't collect the necessary funds from huts we might be forced to run 0% slider for a couple of turns, but the earliest possible time I can envision us doing that is when the Gems are mined. Right now that is the #1 priority.

[Mardoc]

If you were to be around for some time during the blitz I'd appreciate it. Even if it isn't directly FFH2-related, I still value your input. Besides, it is a lot more fun to play when you can discuss the game with someone.

I should be around, both for Gmail chats and the forum. I just can't guarantee being around for the whole thing, and I certainly won't be refreshing the tracker every couple minutes like I do in a PBEM 3 blitz.

Given that PBEM 3 makes about 5 turns/2 hours, including some time to get ramped up and stop at the end, I'd expect this one to make it to around T20, which might even be long enough to start dotmaps and longer term plans. Assuming Bob gets his computer straightened out, anyway - the only info I have on that malware is what Google tells me.

I agree that we want to stock up 50 gold in case of events, because missing out on a free Great Prophet or something of the sort is infuriating. If we can't collect the necessary funds from huts we might be forced to run 0% slider for a couple of turns, but the earliest possible time I can envision us doing that is when the Gems are mined. Right now that is the #1 priority.

Yes, I think I was giving the wrong impression on how urgent that is - it really isn't urgent compared to getting our research in and spreading like a weed. I expect huts to solve the problem, given that we should have better scouting than anyone; mostly I just meant not to spend below that level once we have multiple cities or the temptation to buy goblins from a fort.

[Tredje]

It's turn 5 and our Warrior has just spotted an Amurite Warrior to the West. I will send Sareln an official greeting later. I think we are safe to say that the Amurites are located directly to the West of us, and as far as neighbors go I could think of a few worse candidates.

The Balseraphs and Luchuirp increased in score this turn. Unfortunately I cannot calculate the cause behind this increase, but perhaps you have some skill in this department Mardoc? I am thinking that the only plausible explanation is that they both gained a tech from a hut.

[Mardoc]

It's turn 5 and our Warrior has just spotted an Amurite Warrior to the West. I will send Sareln an official greeting later. I think we are safe to say that the Amurites are located directly to the West of us, and as far as neighbors go I could think of a few worse candidates.

Wow, that was quick! I bet his reaction is the opposite, though - I wouldn't like to start next to us myself. Speaking of which - a dangerous long-term opponent, not particularly worrisome early; I wouldn't be opposed to rushing him. We could even go for an extremely early rush by turning off science and buying an army from the goblin fort, if he's that close (although all in all I don't think it would pay).

Or, well, we could court him as a friend. Sareln demonstrated in FFH1 that he keeps all promises completely, so he could make a good ally. And after being rushed in FFH1, I bet he'll prepare a tad bit more defense

The Balseraphs and Luchuirp increased in score this turn. Unfortunately I cannot calculate the cause behind this increase, but perhaps you have some skill in this department Mardoc? I am thinking that the only plausible explanation is that they both gained a tech from a hut.

I'm not sure, will have to take a look at the specifics by looking at the save tonight after work. I don't think it's possible for them to have population growth yet, and I'm pretty sure land points only count with a 20-turn delay, so a tech from a hut makes sense; we've proved that's possible ourselves, after all, if only we had more luck. Was it 11 points each? That's a tech in FFH.

[Tredje]

I just realized that I prepared a screenshot for my previous post, but forgot to add it to the post. Here it is:

[Tredje]

2 turns today, good stuff.

Our Goblin climbs to the top of the Ancient Tower and spots.... a fat little Dwarf that stole our hut! It had a tech too most likely. Blasted creatures.

In any case we have met two of our opponents by Turn 6, and I don't think we can complain about having Amurites and Luchuirp next to us. We probably don't have to fear any shenanigans from their side very early, while we can plot something ourselves should we want to. The downside to running into the Dwarves so early is that they might contest the lucious area to our NE. Well, we should be quicker expanders than them. I think I will send the Goblin to the SE now in hopes of finding another hut.

[Mardoc]

2 turns today, good stuff.

Our Goblin climbs to the top of the Ancient Tower and spots.... a fat little Dwarf that stole our hut! It had a tech too most likely. Blasted creatures.

In any case we have met two of our opponents by Turn 6, and I don't think we can complain about having Amurites and Luchuirp next to us. We probably don't have to fear any shenanigans from their side very early, while we can plot something ourselves should we want to. The downside to running into the Dwarves so early is that they might contest the lucious area to our NE. Well, we should be quicker expanders than them. I think I will send the Goblin to the SE now in hopes of finding another hut.

Wow, this game's off to a roaring start. Looks like it's going around quickly again - you might have an impromptu blitz tonight at this rate! I don't have much to say at the moment, but I should later on, once I'm home from work and have time to look at the saves.

First, put a sign on the giant spider. We'll want to know it's there, or at least in the area, and only recon units can see it short of being eaten. Spiders don't move except when they're eating.

Second, I'm 99% sure that only Keelyn/Bob got a tech so far. Both the other score increases are only 7 points. I'm not 100% on this, but tentatively I'd call that a population increase for both the dwarves and the clowns, as well - Quick speed should only require 22 food, and they've had 6 turns? Still seems hard to credit, since I think that's only possible with a 4 food tile, and I'm not sure such a thing exists pre-worker, but score is just land, pop, techs, wonders, and land operates with a delay. And as hard as it is to credit a pop already, it's even harder to believe in a wonder. Maybe there's an event that helps fill a granary.

[Mardoc]

Ok, I'm now convinced both Luchiurp and Balseraphs have added a pop, and Balseraphs got a tech as well. That's how much points we have for population, plus there's two top 5 cities with 2 population. As for how? Either they've got better land than we do, in which case Uberfish was blowing smoke about making a more balanced map, or more realistically, they got a handy event; truffles or some such. We ought to see most of our foes join them shortly, though, unless someone else is going worker-first.

Other info - there's 828 land tiles on this map, which is a tad on the small side, I think; as if we didn't already know that from our contacts.

With 2 mana nodes, the Standing Stones, and all that luscious land, we definitely want to expand northward ASAP. Again, you're probably better at this than me, although remember we don't get Slavery until lateish in the tree. And, with close neighbors so we'll have graphs to help us, I'm going to give C&D a try. If I don't come back, send a Ratman after me, preferably Veez

I'll leave the diplo to you, but my thoughts on what makes sense - right now, we want peace. This is the only time in the game when Barbarian helps us any; everyone else has to build a military whether they want to or not, and warriors just don't have enough offensive punch. We want to delay any war until we've at least got the advantage of Warrens, and preferably are ahead on production as well. You might be able to parlay us being a potential rush civ and For the Horde into favorable terms, though, settling agreement or duration of NAP or the like.

Both our neighbors can get practically unlimited numbers of tier-II casters, between golems and Firebows (and Amurite mages, for that matter). We probably don't want to stack up if/when we attack, or else at least make sure to hit them before they have the time for that.

The only other reasonable choice would be to right now, use For the Horde, and try to kill one or both of our neighbors immediately, then disband the extra military. But honestly I don't think that's likely enough to work, when warriors are so quick to build and they'd see that we cast it.

Nothing much else comes to mind. I'll let you know if I come to any new conclusions from C&D or if I just go around in circles.

[Tredje]

I'm afraid that I am not familiar with the abbreviation C&D. Would you care to elaborate? A google search showed me that Veez was involved in the in-character dealings between PB and Selrahc in FFHPBEM1.

The fact that we are on a small map is music to my ears. Not only because I think that the Clan would be at a disadvantage on a big map, but also because in PBEM 12 the map is massive and all we have done for two months is build and build.

Regarding diplo, that probably isn't my strongest suit. Unless there is something concrete to deal with I am not good at keeping the wheels in motion as it were, which in the diplomatic world can be rather important. I'll try to make an effort though, because it would be foolish not to.

Since I spotted the Dwarven Warrior from the Ancient Tower, I was relatively sure that he hadn't seen me. This inspired me to write Square Leg a short story as a greeting:

*As your Warrior exits the hut, pleased with his discovery, he suddenly gets the feeling of being observed. He quickly surveys his surroundings to discover the source of this sense of being watched, yet he sees nothing. The air is more quiet than usual, and he puts a hand on his weapon in case of a surprise attack. For a few minutes nothing happens. Then, from somehwere to his left, a rock comes flying through the air, and strikes the Warrior on his head. The Warrior falls to the ground and passes out. As he regains consciousness he sees the stone lying next to him, and there is a paper note tied around it. On the note these words are crudely written: "Hi Dwarf! We are Orcs and Goblins! Nice to meet you!"

To which I got this reply:

The palace was quiet. No one was stirring. Mind you, this wasn't uncommon in the luchuirp palace. Garrim Gyr was sat slumped in his chair knawing on the leg of some creature they had found running through the ornimental gardens when all of a sudden there was a noise...

An angry dwarf ran into the room holding a rock aloft:

"kill em!! Kill em!!" he was shouting.

Garrim leaned forward from his chair and took the rock from the angry dwarf. Without even reading the words etched into it he knew who it was from.

"Orc's and Goblins hey?" he exclaimed.

"Send them this" and he gave a the angry dwarf a piece of animal hide.

My men are very angry,
but I'm from a peaceful line,
Please ignore my messengers manners,
I hope we'll get on fine!


(Out of character) Nice to meet you! How are you finding this world so far?

Heh, I was amused with his reply. Both of our messages are slightly aggressive, but in a playful way I think. As you stated in your previous post I think peace will be best for now, which is why I will try to get on good terms with both Sareln and Square Leg. That is until we get Warrens. Then the picture changes. I do think we will want to spam Warriors/Axemen and see if we can do some good damage to someone. Neither of them should have their collateral by then, so any war will be fought with brute force. Which suits us.

I tried casting For the Horde in Single Player and the results where really lackluster. I think I got about 4-5 units spread all over the world. Not enough to do real damage with. Right now I am thinking that we cast it a couple of turns before marching to war with our Warriors/Axemen. If we could get only a handful more troops that might be crucial. And since Achaeron is preplaced, we might even get a couple of Sons of the Inferno.

[Mardoc]

I'm afraid that I am not familiar with the abbreviation C&D. Would you care to elaborate? A google search showed me that Veez was involved in the in-character dealings between PB and Selrahc in FFHPBEM1.

C&D is for Cloak and Dagger, but in an RB context it means using the score, demographics, and charts to find out more than you can tell through visibility. Sullla and Speaker's thread in PB2 is an excellent example - throughout most of the game, they knew where all their opponents were techwise, military-wise, and they successfully predicted several attacks, down to the very troop composition. It's a matter of connecting information together that you already have in order to make it more specific - turning 'they're ahead on the power graph' to 'this is their military'. It only really works in PBEMs and slow pitboss, because it takes a while to analyze the data, and anything faster than those generates data faster than you can analyze it. I picked Veez cause he was the epitome of spying, in character .

Or for another example, also from Sullla, http://www.garath.net/Sullla/Civ4/ADG1.html

On other subjects - warrior rushes are hard, because they get that inherent defense bonus in cities, and are so cheap to mass produce. It might be possible, but frankly I'd prefer to wait until axes, so at least we have odds on warriors. Maybe that's overconfidence, though, in expecting any kind of tech lead or parity. Still, I don't want to get in a situation like Mist/Sciz where there's an even temporarily successful defense.

I'm pretty sure Sons of the Inferno in the recent patches aren't converted by For the Horde, but maybe that's just them being invulnerable to the Domination spell. I might have to test this, if you haven't yourself. What I'd really like is to get Acheron I do agree with you on the timing, though; the only other situation I'd call it is if someone else decided to rush us, as hard as that is to imagine.