Civ/leader pick

[Mortius]

Agriculture/Wheel (Egypt, bunch of others).

More initial beakers. Closer to Pottery to get our cottages started sooner. Delays Mining of course.

I think that build would get us to pottery later than hunting/agriculture, or hunting/mining (if going for early Bronze Working) because of delaying the Sheep pasture, our source of additional income. Every turn we are not working it we delay our tech pace.

T40. wheel, agri, hunting, AH, pottery, mining, BW. I didn't make optimal build selections at all. Worker, warrior, barracks (lol), granary, settler (1t from completion). Cottage is now a hamlet. Haven't revolted to slavery yet.

T41 Settler compared to T33 or T34. A way later.

[Elkad]

Note, meeting AIs might throw the research off a couple beakers due to known_civ bonus.

T28
Agri/Wheel. Tech AH>Mining>BW (75b)
Worker (improves deer, sheep, grass mine)
Warrior
part warrior
Settler

Hunting/Agri
Tech AH>Mining>BW (145b)
Worker (improves deer, sheep, grass mine, 3t of roads)
Warrior
part warrior
Settler

Hunting/Agri
Tech AH>Mining>BW (146b T27, 160T28)
Worker (improves sheep, deer, grass mine)
Part Warrior (1t to complete)
Settler on T27, warrior escort completes T28

Pretty even on the settler. Starting with hunting/agri gets us to BW faster. But if we have horses, wheel lets us build chariots immediately. And even if we don't, we'll need wheel for trade routes and copper hookup. (metal never spawns riverside, right?)

[Elkad]

Er, Commodore just said Khmer are guaranteed Ivory..

http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....tcount=600

[Mortius]

Pretty even on the settler.

What is pretty even? Having a Settler on T33 or T34 and having it on turn 41?

Starting with hunting/agri gets us to BW faster. But if we have horses, wheel lets us build chariots immediately. And even if we don't, we'll need wheel for trade routes and copper hookup. (metal never spawns riverside, right?)

In all of the builds we will have wheel before 40 turn (agriculture/hunting on turn 37 exactly). Do we need it earlier? What for? Would we build chariots before the first settler?

[Elkad]

What is pretty even? Having a Settler on T33 or T34 and having it on turn 41?

Did you not read the rest of the post you quoted? If we want to rush the settler (build it immediately at pop2, working sheep and deer), we get it on T28, along with a warrior escort. Doesn't matter if we take agri/wheel or hunting/agri (and a quick look at hunting/mining worked out about the same)

In all of the builds we will have wheel before 40 turn (agriculture/hunting on turn 37 exactly). Do we need it earlier? What for? Would we build chariots before the first settler?

Again, I mentioned that. Wheel gives the worker something to do (building roads) for several turns. And getting a trade route up to city2 faster (assuming it's not on the same river) is worth 2cpt.

I've never even attempted to sim a start before, so if someone wants to make one of those pretty charts with various starting choices, feel free.

[Mortius]

Did you not read the rest of the post you quoted? If we want to rush the settler (build it immediately at pop2, working sheep and deer), we get it on T28, along with a warrior escort. Doesn't matter if we take agri/wheel or hunting/agri (and a quick look at hunting/mining worked out about the same).

Ok now I understand, but why should we build a Settler before two workers. Who would improve the capital and the second city?

It would cripple us a lot.

T28
Agri/Wheel. Tech AH>Mining>BW (75b)
Worker (improves deer, sheep, grass mine)
Warrior
part warrior
Settler

How do you want improve deer without hunting?

[Elkad]

I don't think a 2nd worker changes the various choices any, just delays the settler a few turns.

And yes, I forgot to type hunting in the tech list for the wheel option.

[Lord Parkin]

Er, Commodore just said Khmer are guaranteed Ivory..

http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....tcount=600

Hmm, Khmer being guaranteed Ivory? I think that becomes quite a good pick then.

Mortius, I don't disagree that relative to a regular Elephant, the Khmer UU is not particularly interesting. However, the key point here is that due to the weird rules of the game, the Khmer are the ONLY civ allowed to build Elephants. Now that's a huge advantage, especially if we know we have Ivory from the get-go.

[Mortius]

I don't think a 2nd worker changes the various choices any, just delays the settler a few turns.

And yes, I forgot to type hunting in the tech list for the wheel option.

Go and check yourself how much the second and all the other settlers and workers would be delayed if you build a settler before the second worker. Some even prefer a third worker before the settler if the map is forests heavy. Workers are hammers (from choping and tile upgrating) and speeds up everything else.

[Mortius]

Hmm, Khmer being guaranteed Ivory? I think that becomes quite a good pick then.

Mortius, I don't disagree that relative to a regular Elephant, the Khmer UU is not particularly interesting. However, the key point here is that due to the weird rules of the game, the Khmer are the ONLY civ allowed to build Elephants. Now that's a huge advantage, especially if we know we have Ivory from the get-go.

Even then they are no better than Impis What turn would we have Construction, 120?

Every sim proves the Agri/Hunting are the best choice considering our start, but if you have to choose a crappy civ just because you want Huayna no matter what, go ahead

Man, even Persia would be better than Khmers. At last we would have something useful to defend early.