Diplo with Gillette

[Mortius]

I'd lean towards being friendly and telling them myself... they'll find out sooner or later anyway, and we don't really gain anything by playing coy with them. Sure it was a calculated move on their part to give us a little piece of info, but there's really no harm in us reciprocating.

And what if we decide to not contact Pirates now. Wouldn't it spoil the future relation with them if they know we do it intentionally to slip our Gold city in?

[HitAnyKey]

And what if we decide to not contact Pirates now. Wouldn't it spoil the future relation with them if they know we do it intentionally to slip our Gold city in?

Well, I think the decision is that both things would have to happen, depending on what we want to tell:

If we want to tell Gillette that the Pirates are to our north, then we should move our scout NE-NE to that hill and meet them.

If we want to keep our secret knowledge to ourselves for a bit longer, then we move the scout SE-SE and do not meet the Pirates yet and don't tell Gillette where they are.

I'm going to post this in the turn discussion thread as well, since this looks like it's something we're going to need a full team vote on as it's a pretty big decision.

[Herandar]

I think that since we technically have not met the other team, we should state that we have not met anyone else. I could say something along the lines of, 'but we have heard echoes of "Arr"s and "Where's me Booty!?" in the distant hills'. It doesn't really give anything away. What we don't want to do is lie. Lies hurt diplomacy. Saying we haven't met anyone else isn't a lie, it is a strictly truthful diplomatic dodge.

[HitAnyKey]

I think that since we technically have not met the other team, we should state that we have not met anyone els. I could say something along the lines of, 'but we have heard echoes of "Arr"s and "Where's me Booty!?" in the distant hills'. It doesn't really give anything away. What we don't want to do is lie. Lies hurt diplomacy. Saying we haven't met anyone else isn't a lie, it is a strictly truthful diplomatic dodge.

I'm not sure about even saying that much. As that still tells them that our scout somewhere out in the world, saw the borders of the Pirate city and then didn't make contact. That's even worse than making contact and not telling Gillette about it. Because the Pirates would eventually find out that we had a chance to meet them, but avoided them instead. Better to never let them know we had a chance to meet them this early.

[Herandar]

I'm not sure about even saying that much. As that still tells them that our scout somewhere out in the world, saw the borders of the Pirate city and then didn't make contact. That's even worse than making contact and not telling Gillette about it. Because the Pirates would eventually find out that we had a chance to meet them, but avoided them instead. Better to never let them know we had a chance to meet them this early.

I do agree with you. But I have to question one assumption: Why would the Pirates be irritated-- what would be the negative repercussions of the Pirates finding out that we could have contacted them earlier and chose not to??

Also, I don't I buy the story that contact as early as possible is automatically better than later. Yes, if we go to 1950 AD without meeting, that is bad, but now or in 20 turns doesn't make that much difference. There is no inherent benefit.

[Herandar]

Okay, so I think the main argument now has become whether to contact the Pirates. I think the votes have been in favor of telling Gillette the literal truth that we have not met another civilization in this game. If I'm wrong in counting (or just showing my personal bias), let me know and I can adjust.

So:

To our fine fresh-faced fellows,

Thank you for the kind offer of disposable toiletries. The pigs ruling the farm are quite fond of them. Though we do value our own flesh rather highly, we may be able to find citizens that can spare some wool that is quite useful in making itchy turtlenecks that you can use to cover your naked necks when it gets chill. We also look forward to a long and prosperous relationship between our two great realms. Imagine our future enemies trembling at the awesome sight of mighty bears with gleaming razor blades.

We have not met any others yet, but our fleet foxes are searching far and wide across the land, and we hope to meet others soon.

Diplomatically Yours,
Herandar
Ambassador of the Menagerie

I'm not calling y'all pigs (well, not exactly), that's a literary reference, innit? Also, I might have gone a little overboard with the bears line, but it amused me. Alternatively, might 'razorhawks' be better than bears? I was thinking of Bear Cavalry. Also (and I like this one better):

[Lord Parkin]

Seems pretty good... I'd just split the first paragraph into two, otherwise it seems a bit of an abrupt change of subject.

Neat picture, by the way.

[kjn]

Not sure I like the proposed message. The main trouble is that is has only banter. Banter can be good, but there has to be at least some substance to it. Right now, there is very little substance beyond "lets be friends", and that is covered with more banter.

Two possible replies

If we don't contact the Pirates:

Smooth-shaven friends,

Do you already propose to trade us iron in exchange for fine meats? That is very generous of you, but we're afraid we are quite picky about quality, and we doubt your material is up to our standards yet. We are however confident you are addressing these issues with all speed.

We haven't met anyone yet, but the land around us looks mighty fine, and our scouting ferrets are confident they will meet more inhabitants soon.

If we contact the Pirates:

Smooth-shaven friends,

Do you already propose to trade us iron in exchange for fine meats? That is very generous of you, but we're afraid we are quite picky about quality, and we doubt your material is up to our standards yet. We are however confident you are addressing these issues with all speed.

We have met the our other neighbour the Pirates, but so far all we've heard is drunken songs about rum and lots of "Arr!"

[Herandar]

Not sure I like the proposed message. The main trouble is that is has only banter. Banter can be good, but there has to be at least some substance to it. Right now, there is very little substance beyond "lets be friends", and that is covered with more banter.

Yeah, that's because we don't have anything really to talk about. Their offer of iron in exchange for meat was banter, and responding directly to it is no more substantive than what I wrote.

And I like the visual thought of razorhawks. I graciously accepted their meaningless offer and you disparaged the quality of it. How is that more diplomatic?

[kjn]

Yeah, I was more than a little unsure about the counter-offer. It was more a reference to trading meat for iron, with the implication that we know they don't have iron yet, but maybe I turned on the indirection too heavily there.