[Spoilers] gtAngel sails the high seas as Lanun

[Serdoa]

Well, learn every day something new. Today I learned that Fireballs don't have a limit on the damage they can do = they can kill your units. Great. So it's not just 13 Firebows + assorted other stuff, but also an additional 13 units with 4 str, 2 moves, not hindered by terrain doing collateral while killing you. Yeah - I'm not going to win this. Just make it quick plako.

(Btw: Shows also the weakness of Lanun: If you fuck up the early game or just don't get any water close enough [or both like here] you will lose because you simply don't have any special unit to make up for it. There comes nothing ever that could give you an edge...)

[flugauto]

Firebows a slow and you have Raiders trait.

[Mardoc]

(Btw: Shows also the weakness of Lanun: If you fuck up the early game or just don't get any water close enough [or both like here] you will lose because you simply don't have any special unit to make up for it. There comes nothing ever that could give you an edge...)

Yeah, Lanun are definitely an economic only civ, and even that is situational. Under the right circumstances (PBEM 16, for instance) they can snowball better than anyone else, and you can always turn an economic advantage into a military one. Under the wrong circumstances, they just get crushed.

@flugauto: Raiders only helps if Serdoa tries to go on the offense. Assuming plako gave his firebows Mobility, they can hit at least a radius of 4 with their fireballs.

[flugauto]

And chariots can move 6-8 tiles on roads, on any roads.

[Serdoa]

Yeah, well, let me quote myself

If you fuck up the early game or just don't get any water close enough [or both like here]

But yes, there are certainly tools to use that are not special units no matter if you defend or attack. Does not help if you fall back though. The one thing the Lanun had going for them was a strong economic advantage that they could turn into a military one. That's it. With an equal opponent though, you are not going to win. Lets assume I had Chariots. They would be str 6 when attacking. His Firebows are always in hilly or forested terrain, so they are at least str 7.5. And can have Fireballs, though with him going after me in the turn they would at least always despawn before I'm attacking (pretty unfair actually thinking about it...).

Not saying that other civs would not lose if they fall back. The thing is with Lanun that there is nothing that you can use to rectify fucking up the early game. Others can use Pyre Zombies, Firebows, Warrens, Recon-units, etc. to maybe come back. Not only that, it also gives them a target where to tech towards. I was always unsure what to actually do with the Lanun, as there is nothing that really stands out, that really gives you something special.

[Serdoa]

And chariots can move 6-8 tiles on roads, on any roads.

Just to answer that: I have 0 (in words: zero) chariots. I could build them, but I decided to go for Horseman. I got around 8 of them built. Thats like 4 Chariots. We talk about 13 Firebows, several Adepts, 2-3 Swords. No, I would not have been able to defend. But feel free to play the save instead of me and show me how it is done

@Mardoc: He casts Haste.

[Mardoc]

Let me quote myself

I do believe I was intending to agree with you, and commiserate. Maybe you could have managed if you were in control from T0, but as it is, all I can offer is respect for giving the other players a fun game.

I like the Lanun, but that's mostly because I like building up more than fighting, usually. I don't do so well when I can't boost my economy first and only fight later.

@Mardoc: He casts Haste.

Ah, I knew I was overlooking something. Amurites get some awesome mana.

Also if he gets some XP on the firebows, rather than just using fireballs to murder everything, he can add extend spell, to make his fireballs fly even further. And it's plako, so I doubt he'll make any serious tactical mistakes.

[flugauto]

Well, zero is zero, not enough. But if you had 10 chariots, you could try to kill him before he kills you. Base exchange. Anyway, Lanun without water is painful (blame the mapmaker ).

I was born to annoy everyone.

[Serdoa]

I do believe I was intending to agree with you, and commiserate. Maybe you could have managed if you were in control from T0, but as it is, all I can offer is respect for giving the other players a fun game.

Well, I did get up to 2nd in food in the end, so I was starting to get into it. If I wanted a shot at winning I had to take the risk to go full builder - else I could as well just have ended turn and waited for it to be over as I would never have been able to catch up - heck, even so I was trailing badly in MfG and was doing not to great in GNP either, though that was at least competitve. But I honestly also played bad. I told Krill to build a workboat in a city that clearly needed a border pop before the workboat could do anything. I then used that same workboat to scout while waiting for the border-pop, not taking into account FFHs-barbarians. Guess what that workboat did. A hint: I did not net anything...

But yeah, if I had been in control from T0 it might have been different. The map certainly was providing enough in theory, even though I suspect that it was rigged because the mapmaker feared that Lanun would be too strong if they had easier access to water.

I like the Lanun, but that's mostly because I like building up more than fighting, usually. I don't do so well when I can't boost my economy first and only fight later.

Yep. I did like building them up now as well. Though I miss the old FIN, that worked much better with Aristocracy and Agrarianism.

Ah, I knew I was overlooking something. Amurites get some awesome mana.

Also if he gets some XP on the firebows, rather than just using fireballs to murder everything, he can add extend spell, to make his fireballs fly even further. And it's plako, so I doubt he'll make any serious tactical mistakes.

I doubt that too. That's probably another point that took away some of the possible fun. I just don't like to play against plako. I can compete with him by now I think, but one slight error and you'll get punished hard. And it is just impossible to play my turns within a few minutes in the morning before heading to work (which was necessary to have the game moving at 1t/day) while not doing something wrong at some point.

[Serdoa]

Well, zero is zero, not enough. But if you had 10 chariots, you could try to kill him before he kills you. Base exchange. Anyway, Lanun without water is painful (blame the mapmaker ).

I was born to annoy everyone.

I think you killed Meiz in WW28.5. Kinda.