[Spoilers] MJW, the King of Italy BLACK BOOTS (Merovech lurks)

[MJW (ya that one)]

Rowain CC Part one: The PM chain.

Hi MJW
Austria calling smile

my email: ZZZZ

Okay. So how much trust are you willing to give me? The most aggressive plan involves Austria allowing an army to get killed by Italy so they can build other fleet. I think you are not willing to go that far. So you have to balance how much you are willing to trust me against how much you are willing to take down Scooter/Gaspar. You should keep in mind that NAPs are loved on this site so I would be very reluctant to backstab.

NAP is built into the move orders in which we take out Scooter. That would take at least five turns which is a long time.

I'm not fond of losing units - they might become hard to replace. And yeah taking out scooter is a long term plan while I have still Russia to consider. If we manage to get the czar on board it will go faster.

If you get Russia on board scooter is screwed. So you could be as defensive as you want. I would just need enough supply centers to help me enough.

What SC do you have in mind ?

Tunis of course

Rowain CC Part two: The e-mail chain.

Lepanto is good but there are some possibilities beyond the normal Lepanto which are worth considering.

What is your takes on them ?

I don't see anything else other than attacking you or turtling up.

I meant the various versions of the Lepanto. Of course they do need trust but OTOH they are effective.

If it isn't too much trouble I would like you to be say more clearly which SC you mean by the fleet can take it or about convoys -usually it is TUN in 1901 but I prefer it to be clear here

-Rowain

Of course it's Tunis.

Hi MJW

What do you think about other Lepanto-version besides the standard one? What do you want to do in this game?

-Rowain

Telling you what my goals are over the whole game gives far too much information. As for the best Lepanto version is... I don't see any other options on the first turn. It would be too aggressive to use the army in Venice. The other moves are the most anti-Turkish moves possible. After the first turn there are many options depending on how much you trust me.

The most aggressive plan against turkey and the one the requires the most trust (which is the best plan for me if I backstab you or not) involves me dislodging an army of yours on purpose, you refuse to retreat and then you can build other fleet against turkey. I don't think you would go for that. Because of the fact that this is the best plan, this would be the plan if I could choose it. I really don't know anything about diplomacy as this is my first game; so I don't know what a good plan would be.

Russia claims not to be allied with turkey but he might be lying. If he's telling the truth I suspect that he has problems in the north.

Farewell

MJW

Hi MJW

I was not asking you about your goals far down the line That you will try to win is no secret .

The Lepanto I have in mind is

you do: A VEN -TRI, F NAP -ION, A ROM - APU in spring

and then A TRI -SER, F NAP C A ROM - TUN, A ROM - TUN in fall giving you 2 centers

I do F TRI - ALB followed by F ALB - GRE and try for A BUD - RUM to hopefully also get 2 centers.

With that (you building fleets me building armies) we have a good position to take out Turkey fast and later you can turn towards france and me towards Germany/Russia. That way we can work together for some long time.

-Rowain

[MJW (ya that one)]

I accept of course. This plan is very aggressive and allows us to screw over scooter. I can personally promise you that I won't backstab at least until scooter dies as this is my first game and I don't want to give a first impression as a backstabber. Did you consider that? Or maybe you want me to backstab you because you are playing your least favorite nation?

We can act like we planned a bounce but then I or you messed up to cover our tracks. Or act like I backstabbed you to scooter and the other players.

AWESOME!!! I'll get at least two centers as Italy.

I have yet to decide if I want backstab Rowain or not. But if I do I might as well go all out and personally go against my word. So that's why I sent that.

[MJW (ya that one)]

Hilarious quote by Richard Sharp.

Of the utmost importance. First, it is essential to know what goes on among the other players in their private lives - who knows whom, who is related to whom, who hates whose guts. An American friend once told me of what must be the most perfect position a Diplomacy player could possibly find himself in: he was playing Germany in a game where France had for some time been enjoying the clandestine favours of England’s wife. Germany knew this, and France knew he knew; England, however, did not know. It was no surprise to me to learn that Germany won this game in record time, with the devoted assistance of France, and to the astonishment of the other players who knew France as a ruthless, win-or-bust merchant who would knife his old mother in spring 1901 if he thought he could get away with it.

Some non-players to whom I have recounted that story have expressed shock at the thought that Germany would have blown the whistle on his friend France if things had gone against him: ‘It’s only a game, after all.’ Is it, though?

That is an extreme case, obviously. But it is a fact that most people will trust a close friend or relative before a total stranger. In many games I have played, both face-to-face and postal, the basic strategy has been decided by such factors, and the player who is unaware of them is at a severe disadvantage.

[MJW (ya that one)]

So should I backstab Rowain lurkers? If it was serdoa or gaspar I would just to see him flame me. But Rowain is pretty mello unless someone cheats or something.

[MJW (ya that one)]

More CC. I like the fact that I'm telling the truth both ways.

MJW,

Two centers sounds very reasonable to me. Rowain so far has been very fixated on me for whatever reason, so I think you have a pretty golden opportunity to really nail him and pick up some easy centers if you play your cards just right. Are you planning to move into Trieste this spring?

Thanks,

scooter - Turkey

Yes I am. Rowain, though his writing and actions, has made it obvious that he's going after you. So there will be empty city centers as targets. He has not spend enough effort on grooming me to make me not attack him. So if you hit him we can work together to get SCs and improve our chances. Can you think of any other personal reason why Rowain would be fixated on you, other than he's a strong player?

I know the real reason why Rowain is fixed on scooter is that I suggested that we attack him. Speaking of him here is some more CC from him. I have to add that he might have a subconscious and Freudian desire to be backstabbed.

I don't want you to backstab me. Don't ever think that.

This version of Lepanto is highly aggressive but IMO the rewards are worth it so I'm willing to take the risk.

The story should of course be that you backstabbed me

-Rowain

Okay. I've sent in my orders. What should I say to scooter to push his buttons?

You know you have still more than 24 hours time ?

Most convincing that you want to work with him to destroy me.

-rowain

Yet other reason I want to take out Turkey. I want this thread to be #1 in post count. I'm just joking of course...

[MJW (ya that one)]

More CC. To make it clear I'm going with Austria for now.

I see you like to keep diplomacy short and to the point, so I shall respond in kind.

I understand, but I think what you are suggesting may be too much. I judge Rowain and scooter equally on their skill and trustworthiness and a Turkish alliance is much easier for me to deal with than an Austrian. Its much harder for scooter to stab me than it would be for Rowain.

However, if you were to give me concrete assurances that the destruction of Turkey would then leave us in a strong alliance to stab Rowain, then I could get on board as our build centres as far enough apart that its much harder for us to stab each other.

Make those guarantees, and you can count on me for an attack on scooter and a fair allocation of the spoils both from him, but then from Rowain too.

TT

Hello TT,

Yes that would leave us with a very strong alliance if that happened. I know that Austria would be a very vulnerable to. So I will stab Austria after Turkey is totally dead. This would allow us to get rid of two strong players and get my Italy out of its hole. You shouldn't tell anyone else about our plan for obvious reasons.

Farewell,
MJW

And then with Rowain:

Hi Rowain, TT sent said he would join us if I backstabbed you after turkey died. I have "accepted" as Russia is our only logical target after Turkey. So backstabbing him doesn't mean anything as we would be at war anyway. If you don't like this I can throw a hissy fit with Russia somehow to ruin our "alliance". I think he is making an error in not trying to maintain the balance of power.
Farewell

I meant to say. "Your logical target". However, me allying with you would shoot down me working with Russia anyway. I also only need to spin TT around for two turns to prevent him working with Turkey.

I agree with the target although results in the west may force us to treat carefully.
Throwing a fit or not is up to you .

Okay so I can just sit until someone contacts me again. That's nice. Because this is done I have to admit that I don't like scooter's sarcastic title 'dies first' so that's why I suggest our opening.

If France attacks right away you can dislodge my army, I refuse to retreat and then I can build a fleet to defend myself. You can still work together with Russia to take out Turkey.
Goodbye, MJW

Yep that is the main goal for now. If Russia doesn't work with turkey or maybe even betrays him we will have it easy. Else it will be abit harder but that is the advantage of this lepantoversion it is fast enough that Russia shouldn't be able to do a lot. at least not when he has to think about the north

[Merovech]

Okay, awesome, two centers so early is great, I think, as is a DMZ with Germany.

Unrelated but important note: my computer broke last night. I have my phone for now, but won't be super active until Monday, unless things really go wrong an I have to buy a new one

[MJW (ya that one)]

Awesome turn for us. France not moving its army means he won't be able to attack us for quite some time. Because I promised rowain I will continue to work with him. Now it's time for more CC. I'm telling the truth mostly save for stringing scooter/gaspar along. First up TT:

MJW,

Excellent. If we are to pull off a quick Turkish conquest, I think we need to coordinate our moves. Where do you need me to be? Am hoping to trick scooter into letting me into BLA this turn which would be vital.

Also, I take it that most of the Turkish base centres would be given to me.

TT

Yes you would get most of the Turkish lands due to the map geography. If you can trick scooter into letting you into the Baltic that is going to be overkill and turkey won't be able to stop our attack. You should make your other moves assuming that scooter does not let you into the Baltic if you are focusing on turkey.

Subject line: You got the black sea. Yay!

Hello TT,

It's time to feel happy about getting the black sea. I have to play the Key Lepanto until turkey dies to keep Rowain on my side until we stab him. I don't have to worry about a bounce in SER because that's Rowain's problem if that happens. With france not attacking me my orders or set already for the next turn unless Rowain gets cold feet about a bounce in SER.

Farewell
MJW

[MJW (ya that one)]

Scooter CC -- I wonder how he feels about me dissing him. Does'nt matter. Because he's dead.

Rowain's fixation just comes from the fact that I won the last Diplomacy game that he had a shot at winning, so he seemingly wants a little bit of revenge.

Anyway, word is you are definitely planning on helping Rowain with a Lepanto opening. Curious what Rowain is offering you? If you want two Austrian centers, you've got it, and that's going to be a lot easier for you to get than my centers.
Thanks,
scooter - Turkey

Hi scooter,

I will be able easily to take out all of Austria if I backstab him. Because he's leaving himself wide open to a backstab. So I would need three to four centers for a fair trade.

Farewell

Subject line: )-:

Unless you our plotting something with Russia your pretty much screwed. If you are screwed I'm not interested in talking to you. Well other than the fact if you are going to SER or not. But that's Rowain's problem anyway. I have no idea why Rowain allowed be to play the Key Lepanto so you could go ask him after the game. So do you have an evil plan with Russia or are you a dead man walking?

So, here's the deal. You're going to stab Rowain and keep Trieste this turn, or I'm going to make sure Russia gets all my centers. Let me know what you think.

Thanks,
scooter - Turkey

Stabbing Italy was always option for me. Because you are willing to blackmail me, limiting my options, I'll will go though with it. There is two ways of me backstabbing him.

1. I squat.

2. I arrange it so rowain doesn't support me on purpose and we bounce; by saying that I tricked you into not moving into SER. This has the advantage of delaying the stab so I can use my full force against him.

If #2 is unacceptable I'm okay with squatting.

I will convey my army into TUN unless you support me into Greece to help me overcome the Austrian fleet. It just has no-where else to go. If I don't squat I have to go to TUN to continue to deceive rowain.

Blackmailing is a legit strategy in diplomacy so I'm not bitter and further cooperation is still possible.

Farewell,
MJW

[MJW (ya that one)]

More rowain CC. I have no idea why he trusts me. Guess I'll find out after the game from reading the lurker thread or grilling him by spamming his PM box.

Hi MJW
I sent the orders as discussed.
-Rowain

Subject line:

Looks like scooter is screwed because Russia got a fleet into the black sea. So I should tell scooter to suck it and just spin TT around for a turn a two. That APU army is going to TUN unless you want to support me into Greece for some reason. I want my army to go to SER as planned for the SC but if you think scooter is going to SER you can contact me to change our plans. If France attacks me I get a build so I can go all out in kicking scooter around alike a shaggy dog.

I agree with your plans. Army to TUN and Army to SER.

If something happens then I'm screwed but that's the risk of this variant.

Okay then. You can think about if you want to use your BUD army to support me or not. I don't see a reason why I should consider changing my plans as you are taking all the risk. If you wish I can CC my conversations with Scooter so you can see/guess if he's going into SER or not. Is that legal Brick?

I will support you into SER as it is in my best interest to get your Army there