[SPOILERS] don't call it a comeback [luddite comes back]

[luddite]

How I'm feeling right now, basically:

[luddite]

Sim1: SIP. Darius of Sumeria. Worker->settler. Work oasis, then deer as soon as its available. Research hunting, animal husbandry, pottery. Worker makes a pasture, then two roads, then a camp.
results: worker finishes camp way too soon, then has nothing useful to do.

Sim2: Same as Sim1, but this time keep working the oasis until worker is done. A little better, but the worker still finishes the camp too early and has 4 turns doing nothing useful until pottery is done.

Sim3: Like Sim1, but this grow to size 2 after finishing worker. Oasis worked only at first and when growing. Warrior almost done but not quite. Worker finishes camp 7 turns before pottery is done, then has nothing useful to do.

Sim4: like Sim3, but this time continue working oasis until pasture is done, then after growth works it until camp is done. Better... with camp first then road, the second road is done just 3 turns before pottery (giving 2 not-so-useful worker turns). Settler finishes EOT 28, city is planted on turn 30 and immediately works a camped deer while the capital works a pasture and oasis. First sim that I kind of like.

Sim5: SIP, Darius of Sumeria again. This time, research hunting->pottery->AH. worker does pasture, road, cottage. grow to size 3 after worker, then settler. Work the deer as soon as its available. Result: City grows to size 3 2 turns before it can work the cottage. Settler done EOT 30, city planted on turn 32, immediately works the (just finished) camp. Cottage turns into village EOT 32. Overall: slightly more commerce than Sim4, slightly less production.

Sim6. Darius of Sumeria again, but settle 2S. Work the oasis for 2 turns, otherwise deer. Tech pottery->AH. Work cottage as soon as its done. Grow to size 3. Um... gets a lot of early commerce but to what end?

Sim7. Darius of India. SIP. Work the deer when available. Tech hunting->fishing->pottery. Grow to size 3. worker runs out of useful things to do.

Sim8. Like Sim8, but this time tech hunting->AH. Grow to size 2, then settler. worker reeaaaly runs out of things to do.

Sim9. Like Sim8, but this time keep working oasis. Grow to size 3, then settler. hunting->AH->fishing->pottery. Worker finishes camp 1 turn after when it grows to size 3... then a road, then 8 turns until pottery is done.

Sim10. Still Darius of India, SIP. Tech mining->BW. Keep working oasis. Worker is basically useless until BW finishes on turn 20 (can only build mines and roads). City goes does on turn 31. but has to work an unimproved deer. 3 forests chopped, second worker almost done.

[luddite]

Sim11. Getting crazy. Justinian of India (SPI/IMP). settler-worker. fishing->pottery->hunting. City goes down on turn 17. On turn 32 we have two workers, one cottage just finished, 55 beakers into AH. That's... kind of good, actually. At EOT 41 we've got 3 cottages, camp just done, halfway through mining. Might run out of things to do with workers at this point.

[luddite]

So I pretty much have to choose a civ. everyone before me did. If I don't choose a civ, I risk getting stuck with really bad starting techs. Only question is... do I dare choose India?

[luddite]

Eh, screw it.

[luddite]

Well.... I've done it again. I had a chance to do a nice, normal strategy with an ag/wheel civ, and instead I chose India with their stupid mysticism/wheel techs, and on a map where tech is stupidly expensive. So now I'm leaning heavily towards a settler first opening.

It's not ... *as* crazy as it sounds. Improving both the sheep and the deer only adds +2 food, while losing the 2 commerce of the oasis, so the first worker doesn't help as much as it usually does. And then the new city can immediately work the deer, which at 4 food-hammers is great for an unimproved tile. But mostly it just lets me do something useful while getting the research done. And hey, 3 turn forest chops on normal speed!

I hope everyone else chooses ag/wheel or ag/hunting civs so Krill is stuck with terrible starting techs also :P.

[luddite]

I wonder if it's worthwhile moving to the eastern plains hill after all? I do lose a turn moving there, and I lose the benefit of being able to work the deer so my first worker gets delayed a turn, unless there's another deer hidden in the fog. But then my first new city can be on the plains hill to the SW, so its first worker comes out a turn sooner, then gets an extra hammer after that. Probably a wash, at least based on what I can see right now.

[luddite]

edit i can't do math. Plains hill + plains hill forest + IMP settler = 8 hammers per turn.

[luddite]

Alright, going with Victoria. My current best opening is to move to the plains hill on the east, and build a settler first. Ends up with , at EOT 35: two cities, size 3 and 2. two cottages. two roads, two workers. sheep pastured. Ag, hunting, pottery, and about 2/3 of animal husbandry.

Financial helps a little early on with the oasis, and I'm hoping it'll help a lot in the late game with coast and non river cottages. Imp makes this stupid settler first thing feasible.

[luddite]

Alright, now that everyone's made their selections, it's time to criticize review what they picked.

1. Gawdzak - Wang Kon of Inca
2. Donovan Zoi - Mehmed II of Zulu
3. Retep - Boudica of Mongolia
4. Luddite - Victoria of India
5. Elkad - Alexander of Sumeria
6. Wetbandit - Julius Caesar of China
7. GermanJoJo - Justinian of Aztecs
8. yuris - Darius of Persia
9. Grimace - Roosevelt of Khmer
10. Commodore - Saladin of the Celts
11. Thoth- Sury of France
12. Krill - Joao of HRE

Gawdzak went first, and chose Inca. The terrace is of course fantastic even with just +1 culture, but the starting techs of mysticism/agriculture are going to be really awkward on this map. Being financial will help him a bit but I think he's going to really struggle finding useful things to do in the early game (I'm assuming that, like me, he has an oasis or something similar, but no agriculture resource nearby). But if he can manage a decent start, he's set up well for powerful expansion.

Donovan Zoi chose Zulu first. Maybe he wants to rush someone, maybe he wanted ikhandas, or maybe he just wanted the ag/hunting starting techs. He'll be able to make a camp very early on, especially since he paired it with Mehmed (expansive/organized) for a fast worker. But, again assuming his start is similar to mine, I wonder if he'll run out of things to do with the worker after making a camp and pasture? It'll be interesting to see how his early game goes. Too bad I probably won't find out in detail for like a year.

Retep chose Mongolia first. I mentioned a few days ago that they're the only civ that starts with hunting and wheel. That's definitely a good combo for this mod/map- two expensive techs that are both critical right away. He can get Animal Husbandry or pottery right away, and his opening worker will have plenty to do. But then he paired it with Boudicca, and even though aggressive gets some economic help in this mod that's still an incredibly aggressive choice of leader. Makes me think he just wants to rush someone with keshiks. Combining a barracks (+3), a ger (+4), and theocracy/vassalage (+2) could let him 3 promo mounted units. Amphibious keshiks/knights could really ruin someone's day.

Luddite chose India/Victoria and will probably do some stupid noobish :weed: like opening settler first.

Elkad chose Sumeria/Alexander. Sumeria is a nice, safe, solid choice with good starting techs. He's the only philosophical leader- it'll be interesting to see how that turns out. Personally I'm not a big fan of philosophical- I think it's very hard to make effective use of the extra GPP. And especially in this mod, there should be more time for cottages to grow and outperform specialists.

WetBandit was the first to choose a leader, Julius Caesar, then China on the way back. I liked JC a lot too, and probably would have chosen him if he were available for me on the way back- lots of coast means lot of opportunities to make lighthouses. But then he chose China. Normally their starting techs are great, maybe even the best, since they can go directly for bronze working But here? Unless his start is very different than mine, he won't be able to do anything except chop, and he'll run out of forests quickly.

GermanJoJo chose Aztecs/Justinian. Another solid imperialist leader, paired with a civ that has crappy starting techs (mysticism/hunting). Oh, and he first picked Isabella before switching to Justinian- and expansive leader would have made those starting techs even worse. I wonder if he's also considering going settler first? Late game the sacrificial alter can be great but I don't know how good it is with how whipping is nerfed in RtR.

Yuris chose Darius/Persia. Good starting techs for the opening, good traits for late game economic development. Nothing flashy but very solid overall, which is sort of how I think of yuris play in general.

Grimace chose Roosevelt/Khmer. He's the only industrious leader in this game, which could be great for him. Everyone will expect him to get the great lighthouse so probably no one else will even try for it (hmm... maybe i should try for it). Khmer lets him go for bronze working early if desired, and get a little extra food later. I'm hoping I can beat him to the colossus- I think that it will be great on this map, especially combined with financial.

Commodore/dtay chose Celts/Saladin. Another crappy mysticism/hunting start. And I don't see how the dun or gallic swordsman makes up for it, unless they really want to choke someone? Spiritual is solid but boring. My main goal is to avoid pissing them off, and hopefully they'll declare war on someone else.

Thoth chose Sury/France. Solid ag/wheel civs combined with "mr fast expand". I think creative is nerfed a lot in RtR though, since it lost cheap libraries. I'd expect him to get an early advantage in land/cities and then fall behind later, although maybe the new infrastructure bonii of expansive will help with that.

Krill chose Joao/HRE. Yet another crappy hunting/mysticism civ combined with "the other mr fast expand". So his strategy is obvious- spam cities like crazy while beelining CoL. Unless he gets rushed by Commodore or something he should be fine.