Well, yes, obviously you attack weaker players to get stronger. What I mean is, he's been so used to fighting "low hanging fruit" that he forgot that other civs actually could be capable of fighting back, rather than just sit there passively and let him conduct a war at whatever pace he wants.
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[SPOILERS] joey and scooter's thread: FUN THINGS ONLY
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May 8th, 2015, 13:18
(This post was last modified: May 8th, 2015, 13:19 by GermanJoey.)
T234.
Remember when Chicken Coop got culture-flipped by Oxy's city of Chang, roundabouts T100? Well, the bullied has now finally become the bully, sending now-plako's city of Chang into revolt.   I'm a bit perplexed about what to do about TBS. He had posted about his rail trip a few months ago in the tech thread, and now its finally here. I had forgotten! Can Yuri hold out against OH insane onslaught for three weeks, playing a civ he's never logged into before? No offense to Yuri, but the situation feels dire, TBS's just hanging on as it is... these modern war turns are really complicated even playing them turn-to-turn, and its gotta be even tougher to step into that outta nowhere and still defend effectively. I'm at least glad TBS got someone relatively experienced to take over.
May 13th, 2015, 04:19
(This post was last modified: May 13th, 2015, 04:20 by GermanJoey.)
Welp, I noticed OH razed three TBS cities tonight, so I let the game load up while getting ready for bed and... the Aztecs razed Frontline. Only took two turns of TBS of not being at the helm for it to happen. They busted through the port of Arcanclave, which I had noticed was fairly lightly defended when I had played, and then presumably used Commandos to raze the city. This was why I gave you those super defenders, by the way, specifically so something like this wouldn't happen.
 I can't really blame Yuri, these modern turns are super complicated and getting thrown into the middle of one is probably just impossible to make sense of. I wish TBS had just asked for a pause, but what could I say? And that's game, right? BGN seemed way too burned out with the game, when we were talking, to continue, TBS put all his eggs in the culture basket and is now AWOL for two more weeks, and I put most of my eggs in that basket too. I imagine dtay's been checked out for awhile and Krill lives only to harass BGN. Maybe I should have been a more active participant in the defense, declared on OH and moved my own stacks in to those cities, but I always felt like it woulda been stepping over the line somehow. Well, maybe I already did that anyways, I really did gift a lot of units in total, at least a few dozen in total I think, all infantries and artilleries with many promos. Well, GG y'all, even if this does still drag on I probably won't report much more.
I liked your actions in support of TBS, but garrisoning your own troops in his cities woukd have been bad. Would have equated you pretty closely with Krill and his roaming vigilantes too... but thats spoiler stuff youll have to wait a bit for context on.
Cuz the game aint over yet!
May 13th, 2015, 14:06
(This post was last modified: May 13th, 2015, 14:07 by GermanJoey.)
Ah, is it? BGN actually wants to play on? Sigh, alright I guess. People here are so reluctant to let their games go once they're over. Well, I suppose I'll get Rocketry next and start loading up on a trillion cruise missiles and SAMs, for when BGN eventually comes knocking again.
Are we playing this out because BGN thinks he can win? I noticed today that he has aluminium while OH does not. I can't see this making a difference; Aluminum would shave a couple thousand hammers off the spaceship in total, true, but it's not a game-breaker for the Aztecs not to have it in this case. For the most part, they'll be running wealth in most of their cities as we tick down to the endgame, so this will just mean they'll need to put more hammerage into the SS rather than directly into the bank. Second, the aluminum doubler does not really double; if, say, you're building the Docking Bay (2000 hammers pre-modifier) in your Ironworks city w/ a Lab, it costs 572 raw hammers to build without aluminum as compared to only 445 raw with aluminum. That translates into probably a 2 turn difference at most.
Now, you might be saying, well Joey, even if its just 3 turns, that could be a big deal. Well, first of all, it really won't even be that, because the last three parts (the engine, the stasis chamber, and the life support) don't use aluminum at all. Everything else should be done by then if you've been carefully managing your production. Second of all, and most importantly, BGN is roughly close to 10 turns behind in tech, has a weaker economy, and will miss out on all of the important final first-to bonuses. (the engineer, the internet, and fast labs). Here's a list I made of the tech difference between the top 7 civs and myself:
The difference between OH and BGN is as big as the difference between BGN and myself! Can a lurker ask BGN if the only reason we're still playing is because of that resource? I mean, I guess an attack on OH might be possible... he did make peace with Krill, and he stole Drama from me this turn, I think as a peace offering, as a way to reduce our EP differential, but... I don't know, I just can't see it happening.
The game is continuing due to a variety of factors that it would be inappropriate for a lurker to comment on.
To my mind, the various players who have posted on the issue with the resolve to continue are doing so in a perfectly reasonable way, are doing so out of good faith, and are certainly within their rights to do so. I think that's as much as any lurker has a right to respond to that.
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.
May 18th, 2015, 04:40
(This post was last modified: May 18th, 2015, 04:41 by GermanJoey.)
Well, ok, I guess that answers my question? I'm only asking because turns in this game take forever to play, and with TBS bailing right at the climax of the game and BGN seemingly having no chance in hell to win, I feel like its a legitimate point to say hey, if we can save ourselves 60 to 100 hours a piece (OH+FT together would save more like 600 to 1000 hours
 ) and still come to the same conclusion on who is this game's victor, that's something we should consider.
Quote:if we can save ourselves 60 to 100 hours a piece (OH+FT together would save more like 600 to 1000 hours lol) and still come to the same conclusion on who is this game's victor, that's something we should consider. Yes.  More broadly, I think this is a wider discussion that perhaps needs to be raised post-game (or could be raised now, with other examples, - one of which I imagine you can guess - but would inevitably bleed onto this) about the role each player has in determining what does or does not happen to a game, especially in a state where some players feel the game has run its course. That being said, there's no right or wrong answers to this, and whilst I feel this should be aired publicly, I doubt we'll emerge with a decision - this is a tradeoff between fun to the individual and duty to the game, with a whole splurge of situational and incidental factors feeding in. I mean, on one end you've got my part in this game - I wasted a heck of a lot of time when I distinctly did not want to...but I'd made a commitment, and had a duty, so that held sway in that case. At the other end, it would be more fair to the game if instead of waiting for Parkin to cover we'd simply paused the game for a month whilst I was away (for example) - it would've increased the playing ability of my civ considerably and made it play according to my desires...but this hurts the individual fun of others considerably. (You could phrase that as also falling on the side of supporting the game as a whole, but I think that ones duty to the game is not just about the collective, but also about the games integrity on several levels, and tradeoffs are made here. If you want a more clear example, then any pause is a decision in favor of the integrity (as well as individual) over the collective.) So where do you draw that line, when it comes to matters like concession, which have enormous impact simply from being raised? Who draws the line? How is it decided? Should we even care? Why am I writing this when I have a ton of work to do tonight? These are all questions to which there is no single, working answer. The best answer we have is to let lurkers evaluate it (which has a bunch of problems associated with it) whilst providing them with the best information we can.
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.
Well, sure. I feel a duty to the game too, to play it out to the end, which is why I'm still playing and why I'm still putting effort into my turns. I mean, my position in this game has been better than yours, but I still haven't had any shot to win for a loooong time. But, while I didn't sign up at T0, I did make the same commitment when I volunteered to sub for scooter on T30, the understanding that I'd play till the end of the game. And that's been really up in the air until just recently - first whether BGN would win Domination, then whether TBS would pull off his CV before OH's space ship landed. But, that seems to be over now.
Your comment about integrity also hits the nail on the head, to the way I feel about it. The integrity/continuity of this game has been pretty poor. We've had about a billion subs this game, possibly even more than we've had permanent players - temporary spoiled, permanent, semi-permanent, and multisubs like Parkin, Gawdzak, and Dreylin - but that's been broadly understood as just the price of running a game this big. However, until recently, its sorta been OK because the front-runners have all been here since the beginningish (other than arguably Oxy, although he was already deep into a decline when CH took over) and there's still been all kinds of crazy tension all over the map. Lots of local stories to play out and connect into a great big epic conclusion. Which, like, sorta already happened in a great-big anti-climax as one of the two parties involved left and the other one stomped all over his sub. Now, the only other civ in semi-contention is Russia, but BGN gets a last-minute sub every few turns, so how he can develop a plan to make up for 45000 beakers with a far worse economy is beyond me. And yet OH and FT are still hardcore to the very end, putting several hours into each turn. Regardless of how I feel about OH atm, and as much as I had thought TBS deserved it more for his incredible struggles this game, I have to admit that team Aztecs are unequivocally the winners. Sigh, well, if BGN genuinely still thinks he has a shot, and it's not just because of Aluminum and he actually plays all of his turns from now on, then that's all there is to say. I'll just sigh about it a bunch then predictably rant a bunch of angry words in a few months if the obvious happens. But, who knows, maybe BGN will attack out. He *has* to attack out, IMHO, and then pray that all the enemies he's made won't come back to bite him in the ass. I probably won't attack him, not worth the effort. I guess I'll try to work my way up to 3rd place or something, I don't know. I won't say anything about concessions publicly, of course. I said something in the PBEM63 tech thread only because no lurker responded to my request in my thread for over a week. (and I hate being ignored, heh) |
