RBP3 [SPOILERS] Team Nice Shot - Pacal of Carthage

[Shoot the Moon]

By the way, should we offer Swiss fishing for med? And should we request Mono from Krill?

[Shoot the Moon]

If we do offer to Swiss fishing for med, we could also offer an EP agreement to him. He is currently at 47 against us, and seems to continue to place it against us.

[Shoot the Moon]

By the way, I just did a world builder test to figure out how hammer overflow with the exp bonus, and we should NOT whip Lakewood next turn, as we will lose 14 hammers (half the whip) by doing so. I think instead we should whip this turn, as it will actually wind up getting the workers out a turn sooner and not lose hammers to overflow. I'll try to keep an eye on civ stats so the turn doesn't roll over, but what do you think of that?

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Okay a lot to comment on. Regarding France... because CHASM no longer needs us to move NE, we will now use George to head back southbound to meet Babylon, and we will skip France. I really feel uncomfortable being the team to tip them off that they are out of the CAN. And certainly, when we refuse to give them Maths, that will spell it out pretty clearly.

Regarding Mono, I did. Krill is holding on to it until it goes to all teams, or until we have direct need for OR. He mentioned in game that he is still sending us the missionary. At that point, I think we will re-visit the Mono trade, because it might be smart to adopt OR. But I'm comfortable putting it off.

And regarding Swiss. I need to do quite a bit of writing to them, tonight. I think the tech trade sounds good, as well as open borders and an EP agreement.

[Shoot the Moon]

Ok, sounds good. What did you think of whipping Lakewood this turn?

[Mr. Nice Guy]

By the way, I just did a world builder test to figure out how hammer overflow with the exp bonus, and we should NOT whip Lakewood next turn, as we will lose 14 hammers (half the whip) by doing so. I think instead we should whip this turn, as it will actually wind up getting the workers out a turn sooner and not lose hammers to overflow. I'll try to keep an eye on civ stats so the turn doesn't roll over, but what do you think of that?

Are we still going worker-worker here? If so, I would think it's best to cut out the 4-commerce cottage, since the 3-commerce cottage is one turn from growing. That would leave us with rice-gold-3c cottage at which point we should probably grow back up, especially since we will be able to work the killer silver tile soon.
If this sounds like what you were thinking? I will whip now - I'm in game.

[Shoot the Moon]

Are we still going worker-worker here? If so, I would think it's best to cut out the 4-commerce cottage, since the 3-commerce cottage is one turn from growing. That would leave us with rice-gold-3c cottage at which point we should probably grow back up, especially since we will be able to work the killer silver tile soon.
If this sounds like what you were thinking? I will whip now - I'm in game.

Yeah, that would be fine. Then, once the two workers are complete, we would switch off the gold to both cottages to quicken growth (on t72 I believe).

[Shoot the Moon]

For the lurkers/looking back later, a long chat about the next 10 turns (and even longer plans):

Shoot says:
Hey, considering I'm headed out of town, do you want to discuss thoughts on worker/city micro for the mid term?

Mr. Nice Guy says:
absolutely
we're probably looking at you being away through T80 or so?

Shoot says:
most likely, yes
I'll probably know what the internet access will look like Sunday or so

Mr. Nice Guy says:
okay. i'll be posting more screenshots to keep you up-to-date

Shoot says:
Ok, that sounds great
Obviously, depending on what internet access is like, you'll be making more decisions by yourself
I think we can generally plan worker and city stuff pretty well, but diplo is harder to plan

Mr. Nice Guy says:
the general diplo isn't so tough - france gets screwed midway through your week away, and hopefully things can keep going well with CHASM and Krill

Shoot says:
yeah, but my sense is that sub-alliances within CAN will probably start forming soonish

Mr. Nice Guy says:
are you okay with the thought of CHASM/Krill/us with Mali/Babylon?

Shoot says:
I'm definitely ok with CHASM and Krill
I haven't really heard Babylon and Mali as the option
not that I'm opposed, I just haven't really thought about it

Mr. Nice Guy says:
CHASM brought it up to me last night. Mali is very quiet, but it sounds like they have a vassal-like relationship with Babylon, so it's really about meeting them.

Shoot says:
hmm
sounds like I have a chat with CHASM I need to go read
I think that could actually work well
we have no real desire to expand towards Mali, and Babylon is far away
and I would presume that Mali, England and Krill could deficit fund us and Babylon (who have an academy) for powerful research

Mr. Nice Guy says:
that's the gist of the chat

Shoot says:
I'll go read it anyway

Mr. Nice Guy says:
okay. I've whipped lakewood. let me know when you're back around.

Shoot says:
I'm still here, just reading

Mr. Nice Guy says:
Okay

Shoot says:
finished reading
very interesting, and nice for us
I think the key to this game is going to be keeping one step ahead of the alliance splits
always being on the big side of the split

Mr. Nice Guy says:
absolutely. CAN is quickly choking CANT off
then CAN will split and the stronger half will beat up the weaker half
and so on and so forth. granted, that's oversimplified but that's my general perception too

Shoot says:
I think our relationship with Krill and CHASM sets us up well for that

Mr. Nice Guy says:
yep. The only scary thing in the next splitting is India, but they're too far away for me to be too worried

Shoot says:
yeah
I was actually half thinking of them as part of our split as opposed to babylon/mali
they are a strong team, and one I would rather be with than against
however, at the same time, they have no teching ability currently
I actually think that is one of our big advantages outside of the diplo work: our GNP makes us extremely valuable to which ever side of the split we land on

Mr. Nice Guy says:
I think you've summed it up quite nicely. We are perceived as a strong teching team, and have kept our obligations to krill. So other teams look at us as a desirable part of their bloc
The challenge may well become not apperaing "too" strong

Shoot says:
I think our reputation of being new to the community and to MP could help us there
but yes, I agree
Mr. Nice Guy says:
yep. if anyone is vulnerable to a "too strong" attack in our group, it's krill

Shoot says:
except that in-game wise, he is probably in the weakest position
he put so much into getting the Oracle

Mr. Nice Guy says:
really, if we played it differently, we could be attacking him heavily now and he would be in serious trouble
haha but instead we are giving him 3 workers

Shoot says:
yeah
still don't like that
short to mid-term he gets so much more benefit than we get from the sheep
that we don't even have pastured...

Mr. Nice Guy says:
i'm hoping the diplomatic benefit is enough

Shoot says:
really, we paid him three workers for diplo benefits, as there was no way he could stop us from settling that sheep anyway
in the long run though, I think it could pay off

Mr. Nice Guy says:
if we wind up getting deficit money from him, it will pay off. but i still have mixed feelings

Shoot says:
we couldn't go back now though, that would certainly not be worth it
it seems for the most part like we are on the same page with diplo workings

Mr. Nice Guy says:
i think so. what are you city/worker micro thoughts over the next 10 turns?

Shoot says:
I'm kinda debating what to do with the two workers that come out of lakewood
my first thought was to send both of them to St. Paul (1 to be delivered to Krill there), obviously with the first one produced roading that rice tile first to speed up the second's travel

Mr. Nice Guy says:
that's what i had originally in mind... what was your second thought?

Shoot says:
However, as I think about it more, we don't really need any improvements at St. Paul except the sheep until the second ring pops
and the sheep could be reasonably done by one worker
So what I am now thinking is that the first worker out of Lwood roads the rice like normal
the second would head towards St. Paul and its sheep
and then after roading, the first would join with our other worker in the area to hook up that silver
as we get IW next turn

Mr. Nice Guy says:
that is one of our other immediate needs, along with getting a better road network in place, and before long getting blue dot up and running

Shoot says:
yeah
I was thinking that after hooking up the silver, one would go off to Krill and the other would go off to help chop a settler out of Boring
and the worker produced by the capital would obviously chop that forest, and then also help chop for the settler
thus we could have 4 workers quickly chop out the settler
2 would then go off with the settler
one could stay at Boring and chop/hook up marble/cottage as needed
and another could road back to the capital

Mr. Nice Guy says:
thus getting our road network online, getting blue dot up and running, and keeping boring growing strong

Shoot says:
(these are really rough ideas, so the timing may be really screwy)
boring gets a border pop on t77 or 78, right?

Mr. Nice Guy says:
right. library is whipped t71, complete T72. so we should have 2 culture t73, and then 10 culture on t77

Shoot says:
ok
so the workers realistically won't get over there too quickly following their work

Mr. Nice Guy says:
so boring's existing workers can prechop until borders pop

Shoot says:
and then hook up copper

Mr. Nice Guy says:
and the centralia/lakewood workers can help finish off the chops

Shoot says:
hmm
I think the existing ones could prechop the forest 1S of the copper
(river-grass we want to cottage anyway)
while the other workers would probably be chopping on the northern row
if we could, it would be awesome to time the chops to come in on similar turns to minimize the time the city isn't growing

Mr. Nice Guy says:
agreed. boring is certainly the best overall city we have right now, but it's a shame to stall its growth

Shoot says:
looking at it, we could actually split up the boring workers potentially
have three forest chops come in on one turn
http://s883.photobucket.com/albums/ac32/...g&newest=1
I'm looking at that image, fyi
I'm thinking that t71, the chop comes in
t72 both workers road the copper
t73, one moves 1s and one moves SW-S
t74 and 75 they pre-chop their respective forests


Shoot says:
t77 move back to copper

Shoot says:
then after the mine finishes, they could both move back to their forests and get two chops in on the same turn
and depending on what the other workers can do, we could get a third (or possibly a fourth!) chop on one turn

Mr. Nice Guy says:
if we could get 3, it would take no more than 2 turns to get the settler ready

Shoot says:
yeah
that would be very nice
and very doable
sounds like a plan then

Mr. Nice Guy says:
sounds good :0

Shoot says:
although, we could of course find out next turn that iron is somewhere in our borders and decide it's easier to hook that up than copper

Mr. Nice Guy says:
i'm hoping the wine/cow area has iron to give it some better production

Shoot says:
that would be very nice

Mr. Nice Guy says:
just watch - the only local iron will be krill's northern sheep

Shoot says:
lol
actually, I would be very pleased if it was blue dot area

Mr. Nice Guy says:
i could believe that, and it would be very nice

Shoot says:
yeah
actually, I could also see it being N of boring (not in the BFC but the area N)
anyway, in terms of city micro
I was thinking we would whip St. Paul once it reached size 2
probably into a chariot
just as it has no other improved tile to work

Mr. Nice Guy says:
yeah, there's no reason to go beyond size two there any time soon
it will grow fast once it's time to grow

Shoot says:
and I assume the other cities would probably sit on chariots (or axes/spears once available) as they regrow
putting minimal hammers into them
btw, did we ever send out an email re: not contacting France?

Mr. Nice Guy says:
what do you think of a library at lakewood?
no, i'll take care of the french note and the mali note in a bit

Shoot says:
ok
what about library at lakewood until axe/spear is availble
then once the unhapiness wears off whip that axe/spear overflowing back to the library

Mr. Nice Guy says:
sounds good. that should have the library done right around the time we are ready to go 100% research

Shoot says:
really?
I had as only needing 3 or so turns of gold
perhaps four considering our whipping coming up

Mr. Nice Guy says:
it won't be perfect, but the library will be during the 100% research round

Shoot says:
yeah
then again, once currency comes in, we could forseeably have one really long 100% research round

Mr. Nice Guy says:
if we're going to get on that track...

Shoot says:
let's hope we are
btw, were you thinking granary then baracks at blue dot?
Mr. Nice Guy says:
did you notice at 0% research with virtually no culture, we are still #2 GNP, and double rival average

Shoot says:
Yeah

Mr. Nice Guy says:
yeah, i think that makes the most sense

Shoot says:
did you notice we were 20+ above #2 last turn?

Mr. Nice Guy says:
yeah. i try not to put too much faith into GNP (see Spullla's thread) but it feels good to be at the top

Shoot says:
yeah
and I think it impressed Krill too
we was disbelieving of our 7 turn estimate, to say the least
*he

Mr. Nice Guy says:
yes, he was. *we showed him*

Shoot says:
Lol

Mr. Nice Guy says:
ah the power of pacal. by the way, i'm convinced now

Shoot says:
so am I. I've been suprised how powerful it's been, espicially considering we moved away from our agri resource at the start
looking back at the first page of our thread, it is funny to think that one of the two dots you had on the first turn was our current Lakewood

Mr. Nice Guy says:
and the other early dot is now boring.
whoda thunk

Shoot says:
btw, any objections to me posting this chat?
I think our lurker friends might like it

Mr. Nice Guy says:
friends? there's more than one now lol... no, i have no objection to you posting it

Shoot says:
lol
well, the one
that, and I suspect after the game it will be fun to look back on

Mr. Nice Guy says:
yep, it's already fun to look back

Sorry for the funkiness of the formating.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

This is the chat Shoot the Moon and I were referencing during our conversation:

me: top of the evening to you
10:56 PM Sury: g'day
me: i suppose st. patty's day is ancient history in your parts eh?
Sury: it is
me: oh well, we still get an hour of it here.
10:57 PM Sury: insomnia + a need to take care of some things
me: good times we weren't planning on meeting france but if they are only 3 turns away that isn't too bad
would it be straight south to maya after those three turns?
10:58 PM Sury: you mean Babylon?
me: yeah, babylon
Sury: Maya are directly below (probably somewhat west) of you
10:59 PM straight south wouldn't be the fastest way, though
turning around
and running through our lands
and our roads
so, you'd lose 6 turns...
11:00 PM me: so the biggest benefit would be the map intel that would help the egypt/hre/england assault on france
Sury: well, confirmation
of what they said in chat
you didn't research Writing, did you?
11:01 PM me: no, krill gifted it to us
Sury: thought so
me: france didn't either?
Sury: Mali's going for Aesthetics
haven't talked to France recently
well, a few days
11:02 PM me: i just want to make sure that we don't tip them off by not giving maths
Sury: They have Ottoman contact
and won't be getting IW
11:03 PM me: okay, and that will come before the T72-73 ETA of our meeting, so cat's already out of the bag before we meet them
Sury: yeah
Archery, HBR, IW, and Maths, all not being sent to them?
they'll know something's up.
T75, well, they'll DEFINITELY know something's up.
11:04 PM me: 75 it is, eh? exciting :0
Sury: 1000BC, the perfect time to claim the dual monarchy of England and France for ourselves.
And not Elizabeth the Usurper
Or maybe that was Mary the Usurper?
11:05 PM me: lol
Sury: our stack is going to have fun with names
every anti-France unit will be an English 100 Years War vet
11:06 PM We need to make sure Babylon gets Alpha ASAP so that Mali can get Writing
and start Aesthetics
11:07 PM me: so is it lack of contacts that has kept mali from getting any techs? that is - they are 100% on board with the CAN?
Sury: they are
they have very few contacts
us, you, DIM, Babs
11:09 PM me: okay... but they lack writing still
Sury: and CANT people
yeah
11:10 PM me: hmmm. i wonder if we can help them meet krill.
Sury: Krill just needs to meet Babylon
since Babylon has writing
me: are they close to doing that?
Sury: I don't know
11:13 PM have to ask Krill or Babylon, and they're not around right now
13 minutes
11:26 PM Sury: well, looking forward to getting Math tomorrow
11:27 PM me: same here. sorry to say we couldn't send it today. don't forget to request it if you beat us to the game
11:28 PM Sury: Depends on how late I end up sleeping
spring break and all that
I've got to stop spending so much time on this game...
hard not to, though, especially with the upcoming war and all that
11:29 PM me: i hear ya. it's just now starting to get fun
Sury: oh, ever since I met Krill it's been fun
the diplo's been great
11:30 PM micro has its ups and its downs
when CAN splits, I think we need to look to make it a 6v4, assuming the other CANT teams are all dead
11:31 PM me: the three of us plus...
Sury: you, me, Egypt, Babylon, Mali
won't be difficult
unless they really don't want to work with Krill
which I doubt
but could be
me: a bridge to cross when it comes to it
Sury: yeah
just something to think about
11:32 PM and consider when doing diplo
me: well i've made my position on krill pretty clear i think
Sury: likewise
Mali doesn't think too highly of their chances
Babylon's the key
11:33 PM those two are less likely to split than PB1 Sunrise/Rego
me: sorry, didn't follow that one closely.. but i'm sensing a ruff/dreylin pbem1 type partnership
11:34 PM Sury: different
Mali's much more of a diplomatic vassal
also, if CANT is dead, babylon and mali will only have our row as close neighbors
11:35 PM me: then they're either with us or against us
Sury: yeah
and I'm 90% certain I can keep them with us
we've had good relations
and Krill knows Kyan
11:36 PM so should be good for that, too
11:39 PM me: Well, I really must be running along, but thanks for the confirmations
Sury: ok
yeah, I should run too
11:40 PM me: yes, get some sleep
Sury: thanks, I will do my best.

So it looks like CAN is going to split into us/Krill/CHASM/Mali/Babylon against everyone else. I'm excited about that. We have great relations with CHASM who has great relations with Bab who has great relations with Mali, and CHASM has great relations with Krill and so do we. It seems like the 5 team group that I would like to be a part of.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Notes sent all over the place. Mostly yes, no, maybe so type notes. The only one of any substance was sent to Mali. I didn't realize it had been so long, but we hadn't spoken to them since 3/3. Two weeks without a note? Yikes! I really do mean the bit about keeping in touch, especially if this team is going to be on our side of the next alliance splitting...

Greetings,

It has been a long time since we heard from you, and much has changed in this world of ours. We would like to welcome you to CAN, and as a gesture of our good will we have offered you open borders, and fishing in exchange for meditation. As soon as you have writing, we will send Maths your way. It looks like in order to make that happen we either need to have you or Babylon meet Krill. Do you have any free scouting units to our south or east that we can help guide toward Egypt?

Let us know, and let's keep in touch.

Until later,

Mr. Nice Guy for Team Nice Shot