WW35: Not Another TPS Report [Game Thread]

[Qgqqqqq]

Novice told us he'd be away for RL reasons. Even now we know he's scum, I still believe him there - thus, his play itself was null imo, we didn't see enough to comment.

I mean, sure, I agree - but I know I'm town. I don't get why players not knowing that who previously suspected me enough to push for a claim wouldn't find me more suspicious than a (imo) null read. I would expect a mix, tbh, with some on me and some on him. My lynch push utterly vanished, and I don't really understand why.

[Meiz]

I can't speak for others, but I believe part of that is also based on people who were attacking novice. I at least thought them townish.

[Azarius]

OH wait, you don't think they'd bus their Governor?

After Mattimeo's reveal Novice was gone. You might as well bus at that point.

Except, if we go by Rowains (presumably not entirely serious) theory, we're all three scum. Surely I'd finger Qgqqqqq rather than novice in that instance.
No, clearly the explanation is that I'm actually the Cop/Lover and Qgqqqq is the Mafia Lover, and that BRick retroactively allowed the lover-specific wincon.

Though I did find it interesting that every single person who based their voting off knowing one 'cop' was lying voted for novice. I was expecting some back and forth about who was the liar, there.

I agree, I found that very weird. Especially for me, as your reveal pushed you into prominence without need...did no one really find me scummier than novice? Given that 6 players felt strongly enough that I was scum before I claimed, I find it odd that none of them actually found me scummy enough to vote over novice (who was largely a null read, IMO, given he'd posted so little).

That, for me, makes me think quite strongly that we have scum in the mix of those who were pressuring me for a claim.

I think most people probably just found your claim to be more believable. Matt claiming when he did is such a protown thing to do that it takes him out of the equation. I think it is far more likely he is a cop than making some huge gambit as scum.

So that leaves you and novice. When novice claimed, cop was basically the only thing he could go with. Cop is pretty much the only town role people would have bought him taking over doctor. He also had a decent chance that at least one of the two cop roles was never assigned at all, and he could get away with it. Your claim didn't put you into direct contention with novice, since it was possible you were both telling the truth. However, if he was telling the truth and you were lying, it would leave you open for a third cop to claim (which did happen), so was more risky than when he claimed imo. You also had more plausbile options for a claim.

That being said, it is kind of interesting that noone at all went for you. I think it is likely that it's just that more people believed your claim, but it's also possible that scum had given up on him by then.

[Ichabod]

I think the core of the case against novice was meta around role discard and role reveals. I wouldn't give much town cred either for early voters, or for late voters. Wolves can't try to sway people away of meta arguments, nor can they ignore them/hide from them, in my opinion.

Novice's doctor discard was the elephant in the room at the beggining of the game. That's actually perfect for wolves to get cover by voting early.

Personally, I won't read too much into novice's lynch when hunting on day 2. We have one less mafia and that's great. But it was probably obvious for the mafia from the beggining that novice was going to get heat, a vote for him wasn't pushing for a new case or something that no one else would have seen.

Besides, the mafia could talk pre-game, so they could plan around the novice situation. What they couldn't plan about was Qg and Matt's claims.

[Ichabod]

Novice told us he'd be away for RL reasons. Even now we know he's scum, I still believe him there - thus, his play itself was null imo, we didn't see enough to comment.

I mean, sure, I agree - but I know I'm town. I don't get why players not knowing that who previously suspected me enough to push for a claim wouldn't find me more suspicious than a (imo) null read. I would expect a mix, tbh, with some on me and some on him. My lynch push utterly vanished, and I don't really understand why.

If I was mafia in your situation, I'd never have claimed cop. That makes me think you are a villager.

[Azarius]

Novice told us he'd be away for RL reasons. Even now we know he's scum, I still believe him there - thus, his play itself was null imo, we didn't see enough to comment.

I mean, sure, I agree - but I know I'm town. I don't get why players not knowing that who previously suspected me enough to push for a claim wouldn't find me more suspicious than a (imo) null read. I would expect a mix, tbh, with some on me and some on him. My lynch push utterly vanished, and I don't really understand why.

Q, I can only speak for myself on this, but being one of those who had a vote on you early, it came down to your play. Like I said before, I was on you at first mostly as a half joke since you'd take scum if you could. Your initial post and early defense both seemed very off to me. I don't get the constructed argument on your first post though, it didn't read to me like something that had a ton of time sunk into it, it just felt off. Past the beginning stage of the day, I felt your play became much better, which helped to alleviate much of my suspicion.

[dtay]

more than the people voting novice getting town reads, I think the people who got Qqqqqq rolling as the de-facto lynch are pretty suspicious. Given wolves could talk pre-game they could easily plan out "accuse novice, novice claims cop, move off novice" as a reasonably sequence of events. People voting novice very early after the triple cop claim do get some town lean though, since at that point I think it's not inevitable that novice hangs over Qqqqqq (or Jabbz, to leave all 3 claims alive).

[dtay]

Who those people are exactly, bleh need to go back and scan the thread

[Gazglum]

I agree that people voting NOvice at the start is a null tell. He was clearly suspicious, and a fine place for a wolf to park with intention of moving off later. People who switched straight to him after the reveal is more townish, but again I think that he was doomed as soon as Mattimeo counter-claimed, so I wouldn't read -that- much into those votes either.

By the way, since we have two open cops claiming, should they divide their possible target list between them or something, to remove the slim possibility of an overlap? One picks from the 'odds' on the player list, one from the evens, or something like that?

[Azarius]

Meiz, I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say those 6 are for sure town. Definetely town points for your early novice voters. I'd add bob to that list as well, he voted for novice in his first post, which came after novice's claim. I don't think a scum would do that. With no talking during the day, I find it more likely that they would try to sit back and hope the claim brought focus elsewhere rather than put a vote on him. Actually, strongest town lean out of that on bob for me.