RB Pitboss #2 [SPOILERS] - Speaker and Sullla

[Sullla]

Alright, I know you have more experience with quick starts than I do, so we'll go with your recommendation here. Let's move the settler SE-S to that grassland hill. Maybe we'll even find another food resource in the fog and break even, you never know.

As you indicated in your last post, the question next becomes whether to start with Agriculture or Bronze Working; let's do a quick comparison:

Agriculture -> Bronze Working
Agr (9t), BW (15t), can start farming T9, chopping on T24
Fast Worker (15t), farms wheat (4t), mine hill (5t, including movement), finished on T24
Gets wheat improved T19, no forest chops used

Bronze Working -> Agriculture
BW (15t), Agr (9t), can start chopping on T15, farming T24
Fast Worker (15t), chops first forest (3t), chops second forest (3t), chops third forest (4t, including movement)
Second Fast Worker (6t) with chops, comes out T21, can partially mine hill and then move directly to wheat with no wasted moves.

It looks like the latter path is the stronger one, even though it delays getting the farm hooked up for a little bit. Here's a quick summary: if we start with two Fast Workers, we want to start with Bronze Working. If we start with Fast Worker -> Warrior and try to grow to size 2 working the wheat, then we start with Agriculture.I guess that as India, we want to go for the chopping and worker powered start, no?

Less important second question: where to move the warrior next turn? I think our options are either NW (to fogbust that potential second city location) or NE, to move towards that forested plains hill. Any hunch on where to move?

[Speaker]

Jackpot! We have 8 forests, a slew of grasslands, many of them on a river, and 2 food! It's hard to tell, but I think there might be a resource on the one black tile S-SW. There doesn't seem to be a forest on that tile, and it would be a little strange to have one regular grassland with forests on 3 sides.



What is it that Sirian would say here?

When we found the city next turn, the borders will pop a tile all around. I would probably say to move the warrior NW and fogbust a bit up there. We'll get another row of tiles to the south and east when the capital's border pops to 20%. So it makes sense to me to fogbust a bit in the north and then swing around toward the east, then south east, then south, in a circular direction, never getting too far from the capital.

[Sareln]

Jackpot!
What is it that Sirian would say here?

Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.

Looking at you two debate the relative merits of settle-in-place versus move, is leading me to reconsider my penchant for settle-in-place. Though in FfH with 4 move settlers with super sight (for your initial city) that becomes alot easier.

[Speaker]

EDIT: In a non-Quick, non-MP environment, settling on a plains hill isn't as big of a deal Speaker.

Just an FYI, but this isn't really true. I've run some tests comparing two identical starts where the only difference is two-hammer capital vs one-hammer capital. I set the forests in such a way to optimally chop them with India.

On turn 33, the one-hammer capital has produced 2 workers, 1 warrior, and 1 settler, with 1 corn and 1 hill developed, and few hammers in the box.

The two-hammer capital produces its 2 workers, 1 warrior, and 1 settler by turn 28. I settled on another 2 hammer tile on turn 31, and was able to chop 3 forests, so there will be a worker coming out of the 2nd city on turn 34. Meanwhile, the capital has produced another worker, who chopped into another worker, which is two thirds-finished (40/60 hammers).

So...On turn 33, the two-hammer capital has produced 4.67 workers, 1 settler, and 1 warrior.

A rather big difference, I think. You should almost always move to a two-hammer tile if it doesn't noticeably weaken your resources (don't move away from your only food for instance).

A three-hammer capital (plains hill/stone for example) would yield the following on turn 33 with this setup: 1 warrior, 1 settler, 5.67 workers, 1 corn farm + 1 cow pasture + 2 hill mines.

[Sullla]

OK, that new spot is made of win. Speaker, you were right and I was wrong. This time, at least!

Now our tech path is easy: BW -> Agr -> AH. Honestly, this spot is so good that I think the map team may have goofed a little. We were probably expected to found on the starting tile, but Speaker was a bit too clever for them! :neenernee

I'll think about this tonight and try to run some numbers tomorrow. According to CivStats, we are the only team thus far who ended their turn without settling.

[Speaker]

I think you should send Krill a PM personally thanking him for the great map.

[zakalwe]

Looking forward to lurk this game. Will your new capital be able to build a levee, or does that require an actual riverside site?

[Jabah]

A small downside of your new site is that you can kiss goodbye to your several (half expected) overpowered riverside cottage with levee. (you have a fresh water but no riverside city) except if you accept to lose another turn and move again 1E which has its own merits as well

[Speaker]

Yeah, sadly no Levee. Then again, the original starting spot only had 4 river tiles. :P If this were a regular SP game, I'd probably be doing a wee bit of Ctrl-W. Moving E or EE with the settler would allow us to gain the river, and work the 3f 1c Cow tile without the 20% border pop, which would help us to Bronze 1 turn faster I think. But it would lose us at least 2 forests, which I think would negate the early gains from such a move. It would be nice to have the Levee later though. Overall, I'm inclined to stay where we are.

[Sullla]

Levees are great, but since they don't arrive until the Industrial Age, I agree that we definitely want to found on the hill next turn. Now, if we had a "Fast Settler" with three movement points, then it might be another story...