[LURKERS] PB27 Map & Lurking: Walking in a :weed: wonderland

[BRickAstley]

FYI Map status: About 2/3 of the terrain is ready, minus setting up the BFCs and balancing resources. So it'll be a bit before anyone gets the map.

It isn't a map from scratch, it just requires a lot of editing.

[BRickAstley]

11/23 players have submitted a decision so far.

[GermanJoey]

There's a pretty high chance the map will be ready to review by tonight, so if you'd like to be a reviewer please PM Brick and I. (I have a big list of people I'm going to *force* the map on too, by the way, so if you don't want to risk being one of those you should PM me about that... )

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

Just checking in here now. I've had a look at the map and it is promising. Lots of good work has gone into it. Players, when you read this 18 months from now, after the inevitable bitching about the map, just know they put a lot of effort into it and made a strong effort at having people provide input. And, nyah!

Please no huts

Were huts good/bad in PB18?

They were good for me.

This brings me to a question. The ruleset seems to be aiming for a fair/level playing field. The playing field itself is wildly diverse in skills and abilities. Are the players really expecting this game to be super fair/balanced/a true test of manliness skill and ability? Because the variance in what a player can achieve by skill and ability compared to dumb luck (alongside both) in a field this big is pretty huge despite any precaution that can be taken during map and rules setups.

More specifically, I may or may not have played the third best game in PB18 (almost certainly not given strategic and meta blunders). But the land and huts loved me, and I got to touch myself (@Ceil: ) instead of Jowy or Azza in the critical early stages of the game.

You may not gift units to another player.

Going with the slightly overhanded but very clear and easy to judge path here.

Ambiguity leads to interpretation leads to MJW.

also, could I suggest Krill's starting screenshot contain a flatland capital

(But doesn't the mod now give all starting positions a 2h plant anyway?)

11/23 players have submitted a decision so far.

Perhaps they would like us to decide for them?

[ipecac]

Please no huts

Were huts good/bad in PB18?

They were good for me.

This brings me to a question. The ruleset seems to be aiming for a fair/level playing field. The playing field itself is wildly diverse in skills and abilities. Are the players really expecting this game to be super fair/balanced/a true test of manliness skill and ability? Because the variance in what a player can achieve by skill and ability compared to dumb luck (alongside both) in a field this big is pretty huge despite any precaution that can be taken during map and rules setups. [/quote]
We can agree to allow certain variances that are hard (player skill) or undesirable (perfect mirroring) to balance and remove others that are easy to eliminate while not having any significant downsides (huts, events, and to a lesser extent barbs).

[MJW (ya that one)]

If a rule is not discrete; it's not a real rule. There's a built-in way of slippage for things that are not discrete because you cannot punish someone for going over the line a little. This is because of the fact you got punished is much bigger than the punishment itself. So punishing someone for going a little over the line is hard. People learn that you don't get punished for going over the line a little, it becomes the new normal, becomes an "unofficial" rule and then the new rule. Rinse and repeat. Until people give up and just ban everything. We've seen this with city-gifting and unit-gifting. This happens in real-life politics as well. Well we see this with gold-gifting? It's technically already happened with Nakor in PB#2 but you can brush it under the rug because diplomacy was on in that game and it's much easier for gifting to happen.

When I come back for the "let's flame Civ6 thread" I'll check on this.

[ipecac]

Uh isn't Black the barbarian color though?

Aren't barbs off anyway?

[spacetyrantxenu]

If a rule is not discrete; it's not a real rule. There's a built-in way of slippage for things that are not discrete because you cannot punish someone for going over the line a little. This is because of the fact you got punished is much bigger than the punishment itself. So punishing someone for going a little over the line is hard. People learn that you don't get punished for going over the line a little, it becomes the new normal, becomes an "unofficial" rule and then the new rule. Rinse and repeat.

This only happens if there is no one around who has the authority needed to impose the necessary punishments. There's an admin for this game, there really wasn't for pb18.

[GermanJoey]

Uh isn't Black the barbarian color though?

Aren't barbs off anyway?

No, they're on now.

[flugauto]

Are Commodore and Krill neighbors on this map? If they are not, the game is ruined for everyone else.