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Are you, in fact, a pregnant lady who lives in the apartment next door to Superdeath's parents? - Commodore |
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Singaboy and Sullla's team thread
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November 26th, 2017, 16:18
(This post was last modified: November 26th, 2017, 16:31 by Singaboy.)
Next issue to decide:
Which civ takes which spot. Whoever will take the eastern spot, should head right away for pottery and irrigation as farming the wheat gives the inspiration for irrigation. As for builds, I suggest one slinger and 1 scout followed by - settler for the western civ (plenty of food there) - builder for the eastern civ for irrigation inspiration We still need to be careful about barbarians especially when they get horses.
So that's all the teams:
Team 1 Japper (Kongo) /Mikeforall (Khmer) Team 2 Emperor K (Germany) /TheArchduke (Russia) Team 3 BrickAstley (Rome) /Singaboy (China) Team 4 Woden (Nubia) / ChevalierMalFet (England) Germany/Russia is a great pairing and I think there's a decent chance that TheArchduke and Emperor K end up as the biggest competition. The Kongo/Khmer setup is a bit of a one-trick pony, while Nubia and England don't appear to be great pairings for this particular map. Nubia is still a good choice and will be stronger if it turns out that there's more desert/floodplains elsewhere on the map. The England pick is hoping that there's more water to be found than what it sounds like this map will have. Still, uncontested control of the Great Admirals could be very dangerous. Interesting to me was no one picking Gorgo or Australia given their reputation in other PBEM games. Now in terms of thinking about the starting positions: We should probably think about how we want the early game to play out between the two civs, including where to plant early districts and which player will try to land which boosts. The nice thing about the starting terrain here is that both locations are strong enough that they can go settler before builder if desired. One of the two players will want to go builder before settler to secure the Craftsmanship boost and ensure that Rome doesn't get stuck waiting on that civic to complete. I think it makes more sense for Rome to go builder before settler, allowing Rome to boost and then finish Craftsmanship civic, which will boost it for China before China even gets a builder out. That would open up China to go settler before builder, and potentially use that early settler to grab a location with stone for the Stonehenge play. Long story short, I'm thinking something like this for opening build order: Rome: military unit -> builder -> settler China: military unit -> settler -> builder So which starting location is better for which civ? I actually think either one can go in either spot without too much trouble, but I lean slightly towards making the eastern spot the Roman one as Singaboy suggested. Short list of reasons why: * The main goal of the first builder is to secure the Craftsmanship boost and unlock other boosts in the process. The eastern spot gets more value from an early builder than the western one, which has little for builder to do in the opening turns. Therefore put Rome (going builder into settler) over in the east, and China over in the west. * The first Roman builder can improve the wheat tile (Irrigation boost) and the sheep tile (Horseback Riding boost). There's no important third tile to improve, probably a plains hill mine as the last one for the boost. The wheat and the sheep are helpful though, since the eastern city is slightly food-poor compared to the western city. * China may seriously want to consider moving one tile east onto the plains hill to get the 2 production center tile plant. That also get the amazing 3/2 spices tile into the first ring. China wants to get the 5/0 sugar and the 3/2 spices in play ASAP, then add the 1/3 plains hill forest next to the spices at size 3. This also saves the forest on the starting tile for chopping later. I think I'm talking myself into this move now that I type it out. * China is also better for the western spot because there's desert in that direction for the future Pyramids and Petra builds. Tech paths could also be tricky in the early game. China really wants to get Astrology unlocked quickly to be able to lock in the cost of a Holy Site while it's cheap; with luck, hopefully China will find a natural wonder to speed that along. China also wants Irrigation quickly because all of its resources are improved with that tech, so China can actually skip Animal Husbandry and Pottery for a little bit. Rome has a tougher early research path, wanting Animal Husbandry for the sheep, Mining for a potential plains hill mine, and then Irrigation (to take advantage of the wheat farm boost) and Writing (for an early Campus lock-in). Rome may actually need to skip Mining early on and simply go AH -> Pottery -> Irrigation, using the third builder charge on the bananas. That's probably fine since there are a pair of 1/3 plains hill forests for Rome to work after growing to size 4. Heck, improving the wheat tile with a farm and the bananas tile with a plantation gets Rome one additional point of housing so it's not even a waste. Obviously a lot starts changing as soon as the map gets revealed with more scouting information. What else are you guys thinking based on the screenshot we have now?
I agree with most of what you wrote, Sulla.
1. Rome settles eastern spot (on location), starts warrior (Rome has more to gain from warrior upgrades), then builder 2. China settles western spot, but one tile east (brilliant idea about locking in spice and saving the forest), starts builder then settler I agree that the desert is surely more interesting for China. China would gain irrigation Inspiration from Rome. Hence, it should go for pottery (per-requisite for irrigation) and irrigation 40%. Animal Husbandry for the cows. Rome should go for AH and mining for the tile improvements. Mid term, Rome should obviously go down the Bronze-> iron route for a strong early defense. China needs astrology as mentioned. Further down the road, we need to see what the map reveals. *Note: there are no bonuses in terms of tech for the starting techs pottery/AH/mining
I did some bean counting and if Rome starts on warrior, China on slinger after moving one tile east, this is what we get:
Rome: Population: pop2 on T6 (working the banana->sheep), pop 3 on T14 Production: warrior done T10, builder T17 (if banana, sheep, 3 hammer hill are worked) China: Population: pop2 on T7 (working spices), pop 3 on T14 (working spices -> banana) Production: slinger done T8, settler done T18 (if spices, banana, 2 hammer hill are worked) A settler out on T18 would be pretty powerful. It would require most likely the purchase of the banana tile. If income of both civs are combined, this should be feasible. Here, coordination of the treasury would be very important. rather than accumulating gold separately, sharing of gold via trade would be essential.
By the way, not too sure whether BrickAstley is too much into excel spreadsheets. I know Sulla certainly is and I have used it to maximize overflows in Civ 6 to maximize hammers from policy cards etc.
Should we have a cloud spreadsheet for the game. It might not be so useful in the latter stages of the game when meta gaming is more important, but for the initial stages, it can be quite handy.
One more thought before going to sleep tonight. I think China should open with research into Theology of all things. It doesn't require any prerequisites, and by researching it to 40% completion, China could potentially stumble into a natural wonder and get the chance to place a super cheap Holy Site district down at an early date. That's doable here because China goes settler before builder, and China will have enough time to research up to Irrigation before the builder comes out. I actually don't think there's any need to improve the cows either; that just takes them from 3/0 to 3/1, and there are plenty of other tiles with better yields nearby. Ideally, China is working the 5/0 sugar tile first, then the 3/2 spices tile, then either the 3/1 bananas tile or the 1/3 plains hill tile. There's no particular need to improve the cows tile any time soon with so many other good tiles in immediate vicinity. My initial feeling would be to have the first Chinese builder improve the sugar and spices tiles, adding +2 gold on each and setting up a luxury resource for each of the two players. Then the other two Chinese builder charges could be used for chopping forest/jungle or sunk into Stonehenge. That would knock out 1/3 of the wonder and leave it just one more builder away from completion.
The idea for a shared cloud spreadsheet sounds great for coordinating Singaboy. Thanks! 
Oh wow, thanks for the spreadsheet!
I agree with the build orders proposed, and with my Rome starting in the east. I'm definitely game to send the gold your way for the tile purchase as well. Have you had any thoughts on Pantheons yet? For you, while Monument to the Gods is the obvious get more wonders better button, I'd also consider Oral Tradition for a free 4 culture at your capital, plus more later. Not seeing any resource dependent ones for me, so probably just Rebellious Settlements or City Patron Goddess. Sorry I am not posting as much/often. My wife's pregnancy has taken a turn for being more painful/incapacitating, so less time to mull over Civ games. Plus you both keep beating me to all of the good observations. 
I am going to PM cornflakes about the starting positions.
And BrickAstley, you don't worry about posting so much. It's just important that you are heard, too. Pantheons are a good question. I think we can wait a little until we have uncovered more terrain to decide. Oral Tradition sure sounds tempting currently for China. |
