Square Leg is Garrim Gyrrrrrrr - An Angry Dwarf

[Square Leg]

As I mentioned in chat, it sounds huge, but thats 10 turns of gold for 30 turns of NAP extension. that gives you the 20 turns of research you needed to get Gragoyles and a reasonable defense force, hence while I would negotiate its not too bad a deal if it becomes take it or leave it

(Take as an example sciz's turning down of a similar huge cash requirement deal, which was considered a big mistake in FFH2)

Yes - I am leaning towards negotiating the deal down and taking 30t to get better prepared.

What I don't want to do is give the Clan Ogres... Warrens Iron Ogres are nasty. I have done that before in SP and it kills. Just get some form of collateral and jobs a good'un.

So... How long would it take him to get that with a boost of gold? Smelting and Iron working are very big techs. I dunno - maybe they could do it in 30t... I doubt it though.

If I pay them 30gpt for 30t that is 900g. They will be able to convert that into ~1000 beakers. (1.2 pre-req and -10% barb trait) Smelting is 1672b and Iron Working is 2717b.

That is 1 perspective.

Or I could build and maintain another 30 bronze warriors....

The thing that I am conscious of is that if I enter into a war of attrition with the Clan, they will win it. They have cities all over the shop and the capability to build 2units/turn.

If they enter into a war of tech/econ with me - I will (could ) win by getting my hands on goodies.

If I take the deal I will revolt back into pacifism and probably still into Conquest and Mil State. Get my next GE asap. Build the Guild of Hammers. Research Engineering for Gargoyles and +1 road movement. Build the Guild of Hammers.

Urgh - decisions.

[darrelljs]

I've always thought Ogres were better than Golems. Metal, Warrens and the ability to take Mobility+Haste is better than Repair and Blasting Workshops. I think Baraxnus should be able to take SE1 and SE2 after he gets C5, and that it should apply to Golems.

Darrell

[Square Leg]

I've always thought Ogres were better than Golems. Metal, Warrens and the ability to take Mobility+Haste is better than Repair and Blasting Workshops. I think Baraxnus should be able to take SE1 and SE2 after he gets C5, and that it should apply to Golems.

Darrell

They are!

The thing is, in theory the Financial Luchiurp player should have Iron Golems in play a long time before the Barbarian Clan player has Ogres....

[Square Leg]

Continuing the diplo from the Clan:

Hey Mardoc,

15gpt was my starting offer and I think there is definitely potential for us to come sort of arrangement here. I have to remember that any gold gift to you is infact a compensation of twice that amount in that you will be boosted while I am reduced. Your counter of 50gpt will even things out by 100gpt which is an awful lot.

I am willing to play the bartering game however so hopefully we can meet in the middle somewhere. Does 30gpt for 30t sound like a deal you could accept? That would be a total of 900g - the equivilant of a GM mission and i'm sure, a massive boost to your economy. I can send the money in chunks or as 30gpt - whichever works well for you.

The way I see it, you may as well get gold from me whilst ransacking someone else with the Sons no?

I have offered OB in game, I won't be offened if you don't feel you can accept at this juncture but thought it was best to offer.

Cheers,
SL

I am a little annoyed that I sent this actually. I should have gone in at 25gpt. To be honest I am still not convinced I should be entering into this deal. Having said that, I intend on negotiating it out to see where the ultimate price ends up.

The Clan are not going to be done with fighting Bob for 10t I'd say. In that time I will be 80% of the way to having either Gargoyles or, something I overlooked for too long.... Chalid.

I discover Mathematics at the end of t140. After that I need Priesthood and Religious Law. The latter is a massive tech.

I can also build a lot of units in that time.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm..........................

Turn report for T139 to follow shortly.

[Square Leg]

T139





Turns out they are there for the Sheaim to claim but I was tempted!

Lets have a look at what mardoc is on about when he talks about my GNP being so high:

So yeah - My GNP is a lot higher than everyone elses at the moment. I am in GA (so is Iskender) and at 100% there so not break even (80%).

A load of builds completed this turn and I did swap into Military State and Conquest. I took the opportunity to snap a shot of all my cities so he we go:

Totoro

Unit Infra: Mage Guild, Sculture Studio

A really good city that is going to be able to produce a lot of units over the next few turns. Will produce a few adepts and then onto Wood Golems.

Valley of the Wind

Unit Infra: Sculpture Studio, Siege Workshop

This was the place I was going to upgrade all my warriors to chariots....... Still pretty fucked off about that tbh. Should have realised. Otherwise it is an excellent city - struggles with health all the time though...

Kobe

Unit infra: Sculpture Studio

Has been building Radiant Guard and is now going to pop a Ratha for shits and giggles. Radiant guard cost 125g to upgrade to Ratha. Another pretty sweet city. waiting for that burnt forest to grow back so it can be lumbermilled.

Earthsea

This is where I got the harpy event and so it is up against the happy cap for now. I have 2 mud golems in the hood ready to build a couple of lumbermills and once it finishes the SS it will build some wood golems.

Ponyo

Actually a very nice marginal city! I am building a CHEAP Archery range here to upgrade some warriors to archers. They will make a lot tougher stack/city defenders than warriors and won't cost much to upgrade.

Howls Castle

Still fairly young and very vulnerable to the Clan. Archers need to here asap. I will give 1 adept Earth 1 for wall of stone too. After the SS... not sure - military, either warriors to be upgraded or wood golems.

Porco Rosso

The Flying Pig!

It needs to grow grow grow and then grow some more. I can draft Radiant Guard here for 1 pop and 3 for 6t... it needs to be bigger though. I may cash rush the temple so I can start to spread Empyrean a bit more.

And thats a wrap.

Two last shots for fun:

[plako]

Sorry for a late comment although we discussed about this also yesterday. 15 gpt would have been quite alright, but I think 30 gpt is too much. With the GA+military civics you could have built up a respectable army in 10T that had the tools to immobilize the sons enough to get a chance to hit them. You get peace, but so does Clan and they really need it after fighting continuously for a very long time. Granted the other side is that the time of peace gives you possibility to claim Gargoyles and Chalid that makes a pretty potent basis for army, but I still think 30 gpt helps the clan too much.

If you end up getting a NAP, I suggest you prepare a settler or 2 to claim leftover land in the south. I guess there should be some land available that isn't agreed upon yet.

I also suggest Engineering 1st it is not just Gargoyles. +1 movement in roads makes also quite a difference when fighting against 2-3 move summons. Also getting to Religious Law requires quite a bit more beakers than Engineering.

[Square Leg]

Sorry for a late comment although we discussed about this also yesterday. 15 gpt would have been quite alright, but I think 30 gpt is too much. With the GA+military civics you could have built up a respectable army in 10T that had the tools to immobilize the sons enough to get a chance to hit them. You get peace, but so does Clan and they really need it after fighting continuously for a very long time. Granted the other side is that the time of peace gives you possibility to claim Gargoyles and Chalid that makes a pretty potent basis for army, but I still think 30 gpt helps the clan too much.

If you end up getting a NAP, I suggest you prepare a settler or 2 to claim leftover land in the south. I guess there should be some land available that isn't agreed upon yet.

I also suggest Engineering 1st it is not just Gargoyles. +1 movement in roads makes also quite a difference when fighting against 2-3 move summons. Also getting to Religious Law requires quite a bit more beakers than Engineering.

Hey plako,

In the outset I was leaning heavily on taking the deal, assuming that I could negotiate it down to a more manageable amount. Now however I am sorely tempted to just play on without it.

With my new military set up I am getting +25% hammers, using food to build units, +2xp/unit and can rush stuff using my GNP and I can upgrade stuff. Heck - i can even draft warriors if i need to! In a defensive war of attrition I would do ok. The 1 major factor against me is mobility. The Clan have hasted units which will be a pain. That said - I do plan on picking up AH and HBR before going to Engineering so I can use the Mobility promo on all my units. Ratha will also help a lot.

I am 100% sure though that the Clan will come after me next rather than stopping by the Sheaim or the Sidar. I wonder how far the Sidar are from having some assasins...

[Square Leg]

Square Leg,

I understand your position - but you're already somewhere around
150-200 ahead of us in GNP, and the trendline doesn't look good from
our perspective either. If we let that go on, we'll be out of the
game, despite the Sons. Do keep in mind that it's not quite as bad as
you're discussing; between Barbarian and libraries forbidden, 50 gold
turns into rather less than 50 beakers for the Clan.

I'm afraid that 50 gpt is still my position. I'm ok with 30 turns.

Also, our borders are Open, at least for the moment.

- Mardoc

ok. No deal is going to be my answer.

It needs to be a friendly no though - after all, I don't want to piss them off.

Mardoc predicts that his GNP is 150-200 less than mine. Looking at the demog's from last turn my GNP was 317, rival worst was 25 (Bob), Rival best was 153 (Iskender). Rival average was 104. That means that Sheaim + Clan = 238. Sheaim are doing better than the Clan, I know that from the graphs so the Clan probably have a GNP of just over 100.

200 is probably nearer than 150 but I am in GA at the moment.

If he wanted to make a point he should have phrased it "Your GNP is 300% that of mine"

To be honest - they won't be at my doorstep right away and so I have some time.

[Jkaen]

Fair enough.

Is there anything diplomatically you can do to get the others to occupy the clan for a while?

[Square Leg]

Fair enough.

Is there anything diplomatically you can do to get the others to occupy the clan for a while?

They will be occupied killing off Bob for a little while yet. I'm going to see if Iskender can get some Assassins soon-ish... but otherwise. Nah - time to bite the bullet. Lets see how much crap I can muster...

And I'm going to let Mardoc wait for an answer too!