[SPOILERS] Yossarian blames Caledorn

[YossarianLives]

Very interesting email. Having good relations with Orgy is important (now that LP isn't on the team), since they are our other northern neighbor. Our route to victory will be taking over the weaker southern teams, so we want to have strong positive relations with the teams north of our core.

This agreement goes maybe a little further than I would have proposed so early. But I'm biased, because I've been chatting a lot with TeddyKGB, so I feel that EggHeads should be our #1 ally, with Orgy being secondary. But EggHeads are probably the stronger team, so maybe we want to help Orgy more than we want to help EggHeads? Plus, Teddy himself says he's just a dedlurker while DMOC is the team leader, while Caledorn and Arkipeller are good RL friends, so we can probably get more from cooperation with Orgy than we could from EggHeads.

Those are my initial thoughts, anyways. I'd like to sit on it a little while before saying for sure if I would want to agree to everything there. Old Harry and Cheater Hater, what do you guys think?

[YossarianLives]

Turn 92

So we found Orgy's razed city. Hopefully we can get OB to keep on moving with the scout. I'll edit out our mini map and research, and send the three Rome pictures to our allies. We'll settle our next city on T93, which I'm about to go play now. I never got a good name for it...

Demos and Power

That GNP value is after I rearranged our tiles for max commerce. Well, I'm not working the silver. I think Constant Pauses will grow in about 4 turns, so that will help a little.

I have family flying in today. I'll probably be able to keep playing the turns, but certainly won't have time to post turn reports. You guys are going to have to ask Caledorn nicely for pictures

[YossarianLives]

Lexington Steele, an Orgy chariot, is just outside of our northern borders, threatening our worker that is camping our deer. I doubt they'll snipe him, especially since they're trying to build positive relations with us, but it does put a little more pressure on us to confirm that NAP (and all the other stipulations, I suppose)

Caledorn, I think that name was for you

[YossarianLives]

Email from EggHeads to us and Dinos:

Here are pictures from T92 after Rome finish turn.
They moved sentry chariot inside borders to heal.

Top power was 138k on T92. I suppose India is 2nd in power after Rome.
Our team was 3rd at the moment.

We are waiting for you to decide - should we announce our pact to Rome now or wait of Asterix's response.
As you can see Asterix's power is nonexistend, so he is lucky to be far away from Rome and play diplo game, I suppose.

-TKGB of EggHeads

I will send back this short message:

Hi guys,

So far no word from Asterix. Why don't we stick with the original timeline of announcing our pact to Rome on T95. Hopefully we'll hear from Asterix by then, but if not, we shouldn't keep delaying.

Nothing new from our Rome scouting, so here are some closeups of the cities we have vision on.

[YossarianLives]

I had a short window to play the turn this morning, but since we're still paused on T93, you get a turn report instead!

So I realized after agreeing to Arkipeller's request that now we can't trade maps with anyone without his permission. Doh! Oh well, we needed to move that scout somehow. Settled the city of Taxes. I'm going to have to check the odds for attacking that barb axe in the south with our shock axe, but we have nothing else in Hangovers so we might have to allow it to pillage the pigs and then suicide into the city

Demos and stuff:

And this is the diplo screen that came up right now:

We would love either or both happy resource, obviously, but we can't afford to pay any GPT

Also, I think it's funny / ironic that the game is currently paused for Asterix, when obviously Asterix did have a chance to log in and send that diplo message...

[YossarianLives]

Played T95, sent the in-game message to Rome notifying them of our Defensive Pact with Dinosaurs and EggHeads. I let our allies know that I have done this. They should be doing the same this turn.

Chatted with Asterix today and he will not send a message to Rome on our behalf, unless we are willing to bribe Rome to DOW India. He felt that forming a defensive pact is aggressive against Rome and he does not want to get involved, instead preferring to maintain good relations with Rome.

Asterix requested all our gold, to be paid back in full in four turns. In return, he will gift us Spices for free for 10 turns. Now, this isn't a horrible deal, as we probably won't be able to turn on research for 4 turns. Then again, having +1 happy for ten turns doesn't really do much for us, as we'll lose the happy right around the time that our cities would grow large enough to take advantage of it. The offer is only on the table if we gift all our gold this turn. I did not agree to it in-game, but Caledorn, if you want to log in and do so, I wouldn't mind. If you don't want to, we can just stay silent and let the offer expire.

Everything else is going as planned. Our GNP is really embarrassing. Once we finish limping to Currency (I hope in about 10 more turns), then we can turn on Wealth builds everywhere and hopefully turn things around. It might be too late by then, but we'll see...

[YossarianLives]

I have family flying in today. I'll probably be able to keep playing the turns, but certainly won't have time to post turn reports. You guys are going to have to ask Caledorn nicely for pictures

So I guess nobody wanted those turn reports, huh? Well here they are anyways

Turn 94

Overview:

Barbs incoming:

Demos / Power / Events:

[YossarianLives]

Turn 95

Scouting:

Overview:

We got Care Bears' graphs:

Demos, battles and other stuff:

[YossarianLives]

Turn 96

Scouting:

Overview:

Demos and power and cities

[YossarianLives]

Diplo with Asterix:

I had a long chat with Asterix at work Monday (don't tell my boss )

Asterix
hi
got your letter
YossarianLives
Hi Asterix
Great, I'm glad you got the letter
Asterix
Did you communicate with Rome already?
I am not sure the hardball thing is the way to go ...
YossarianLives
We were planning on sending them in-game messages on T95
What has your communication with them been like?
Asterix
You can kinda insult them, I am afraid
YossarianLives
We noticed India revolted to SP, so maybe they are already anticipating an attack?
Asterix
anyway, the key issue - to which I have no answer - is how to make fighting India attractive to Rome?
I understand that your idea is to telll Rome that you will dogpile them otherwise?
I would not respond well to smth like this...
YossarianLives
Well it's hard to be anything but straightforward and blunt with them, since they haven't replied to any messages
Yes, if Rome attacks one of us, they will be attacked in turn by the other two teams. That is the reality.
Asterix
My understanding is that India is smart enough to realize they are a natural dogpile candidate - I do not think there is more to it ...
YossarianLives
If Rome attacks India, we will all leave Rome alone and let them do their thing
Asterix
how would yu deal with Rome waging "fake war" on India to satisfy you guys?
I do not think we can really force Rome to fight this war for us
YossarianLives
Our three teams have made an agreement to protect each other from Agg Praets. If Rome does not send those against our teams, then we don't care what they do with them. We will leave them alone. If Rome decides to try to make gains against one of our teams, then the defensive pact will kick in
Asterix
OK
But do you have any idea how to make fighting India interesting for them?
YossarianLives
I wasn't able to get a lot of support behind paying Rome for attacking India. Even within my own team, I think I was the only one who was really excited about that idea
Asterix
Normally, you fight for land, but keeping cities that far away will be very costly
YossarianLives
The rest seem to care more about just not getting attacked, less about hurting India
Asterix
we can try to bribe Romans with money, but land is still better
so i understand your selling point is that India will be an easier victim than the three of you?
YossarianLives
Yeah, that's basically all I can say we have to offer right now
Asterix
I see
I guess people tend to think short term
but at that case, I do not think you need me - you will try to bully Rome on your own anyway
I know it would require some long term thinking and giving Rome something really tempting
YossarianLives
What has your communication with Rome been like? Have they explained why they won't talk with anyone else?
We sent them a message early, before we met Dinos, that if they would talk to us we would sign a NAP and help them send praets elsewhere, but they never bothered to reply
Asterix
We just exchanged basic pleasantries - and opened borders
YossarianLives
If you are willing to send them a message to Rome saying that Dinosaurs, EggHeads and Blame Caledorn are willing to sign NAP's together with them, that would be helpful. But I understand if you don't want to get involved
Asterix
I wanted to get involved initially - but frankly, what you are giving them is pretty brutal ultimatum - i would rather not get involved in this.
YossarianLives
India will soon be past the point of no return, I fear. They will need to be dogpiled sooner rather than later. But Rome's neighboring teams cannot think about that until the praets at our backdoors are neutralized
Asterix
it seems that they like us for some reason, better not spoil this
I completely understand you and Dinosaurs.
I understand Eggheads less
YossarianLives
Ok, I definitely understand your position. As you say, the message from us will probably accomplish the same thing anyways, without an additional email from you
Asterix
BTW, if you ever want longer NAP with us it is enough to ask - no need to form a defensive pact
YossarianLives
I wish we did not need to be so blunt, but I feel Rome has not left us any other options
lol, we've asked Rome more than once for a NAP, though! When all they do is ignore us and tech to praets, I must take the position that they are being the aggressors, not us
Asterix
Exactly, there is nothing more to adda
YossarianLives
So anyways, switching topics
I got your in-game message about the resource for GNP trade
Asterix
so you said you already propose them to send praetorians somewhere else, but not exactly towards Rome?
YossarianLives
I appreciate the gesture. It means a lot to my team. Unfortunately, we don't have any GPT to spare
Asterix
and you say you can only offer support? As in "moral support"? No money, units or resources?
No problem, just keep this in mind
later on, we may want to trade happy for happy - or for a strategic resource
The only think I can advise you is to start with carrot - offer Rome support again if they would like to attack somebody else
I can also try, but i think we will need a substantial bribe for this to happen - imagine you are playing Rome
YossarianLives
I had to go back and check the exact wording. The email was sent awhile ago
What we said was "If you ever decide to get in touch with us, we're always ready to talk to you guys. We think that cooperating together would be good for both of us.

For now, we have to assume that your silence is not a good sign. We'll be prepared if we sense praetorians may be coming our way."
Asterix
Maybe that is why they did not follow up on it
do you have any reasons to suspect Rome is about to attack you - other then them being silent and connecting iron?
YossarianLives
No, tbh at this point I do not think they will attack Blame Caledorn
We have kept our city settlements far from the border to not invite attack
Asterix
so what do you think they would do?
YossarianLives
Dinosaurs probably have the most to worry about
Asterix
I think that, too
btw, to me your message was kinda hostile - although in a very polite way
YossarianLives
But when we were still very nervous, we agreed with dinosaurs to protect each other, and we will not back out of that now
Asterix
I mean "we assume your silence is not a good sign" part
I completely understand
I was just saying that apparently Rome did nothing to you yet other than being non-responsive?
YossarianLives
Rome is in a very difficult position now. Three neighbors are aligned against them. The 4th neighbor is running away with the game
They may be in desperation mode
Correct
Asterix
or they may not even realize that
YossarianLives
They have not been hostile in-game. But choosing Agg Rome and ignoring emails to me is an extremely hostile way of playing the game. We had to respond accordingly
Asterix
I am afraid you are right, looks like that we aill all deal with our backer affairs - except for Eggheads, who seem to be like world's policeman - and India will ran away with a game
but i have no other idea - except to bribe Rome with a bribe that nobody would offer them without a knife on their neck
YossarianLives
lol, maybe India will join in our dogpile of Rome and reap all the rewards in terms of Roman cities
Asterix
I think non-responding part is not hostile
did you offer them open borders?
but choosing AGG Rome indeed points at certain strategy
YossarianLives
Not in game. We did not have the chance until long after they ignored our initial messages and we established cooperative relations with other teams. No way I will offer OB in-game to non-responsive Agg neighboring Rome. That is just inviting them to scout our cities for a future attack
Asterix
we have non-scouting oB with them, but I do understand
pity you are so far away, you seem the player with the broadest vision in this game
thank you for telling me about the situations, looks like it leaves me to deal with india almost alone ;(
YossarianLives
Yes, I think we are the furthest teams from each other
Asterix
but anyway I got one lesson already that I can only rely on myself
YossarianLives
How is your other neighbor, SutOxy?
We speak with them a little, but since we are not neighbors, there isn't too much to discuss
Asterix
they are nice, although slightly weird in their actions- they keep telling us not to get to friendly with India, but keep refusing to open borders with us
but they seem to be very scrupulous in keeping their agreement, which is great
so does seem Yuufo
We met Suttoxy early and hope to work closely with them, but instead they sided up more with Orgy
YossarianLives
Well it seems there were some problems there between those teams
Asterix
you probably saw recently in the technical thread that they did some weird machinations
YossarianLives
After LP abandoned the team
Asterix
and they giving each other resources
btw, do you have trade routes with Orgy?
YossarianLives
Oh, they are trading resources? Happy resources?
Asterix
Suttoxy gave Orgy silk last turn
I wondered if Orgy gave them marble earlier
YossarianLives
Marble for MoM?
Asterix
Suttoxy have no marble of their own - but they built MoM - and rather quickly
yeah
YossarianLives
Maybe the silk was payment for the city that Orgy let Sutt burn down
Asterix
anyway, that was a weird business
YossarianLives
We are soo far away from Calendar still
Not being Fin is really hurting our team. I think maybe we made the wrong Leader decision in this game
Asterix
at the same time Suttoxy was razing that city, they sent us email we should all give Arkippeller a lot of support
i can leave without city-razing type of support
You are doing extremely well - for non FIN, non CRE and wonder less civ
we would be glad to be partners with you, since I am sure you will be along for the long time
pity you are so far way - we could also trade you happy for units - but distance make this problematic
unless you have something military or naval close to us?
btw, do you know how we got trade routes? i was very surprised
YossarianLives
I would have to check
Do you have tr with BowAivo?
We are connected to them, so maybe that is how?
Asterix
now, i have tr only with india, suttoxy, eggheads and you
YossarianLives
I think that by the time we can recover financially, the northern teams will be too far ahead for us tohave a serious chance for the win
I don't know where ours came from
The only new scouting we have down recently is the land between Sutt and Orgy, but I don't know how that would give us routes
Asterix
nvm
pity the geography is what it was
YossarianLives
I'll look next time I'm in game to see if I can puzzle it out
Asterix
it seems that you are doing right thing with your DP with dinosaurs
YossarianLives
The ice equator was a clever touch. Plako makes good maps
Asterix
yeah, i would have never guessed we are in the North
YossarianLives
Poor dinos. They keep asking us to plant cities next to Rome but we've been refusing.
We'll try to flash some units at Rome to keep some of their units tied up, but there could be some bloodshed there.
At the end of the day, Rome is not going to make enough gains
Asterix
I hope you understand that it is not that i do not want you to help - but I may be able to help you later more more effectively if I will stay away now - i am afarid Romans may "hate the messenger". I would
YossarianLives
What is your naming theme?
Asterix
Maga left a list
YossarianLives
Yeah, no worries. I understand where you're coming from
Asterix
I think Master Margarita/Russian culture
some of them are Vysotsky's song or Russsian novels
YossarianLives
Do you know what SuttOxy's theme is? That's the most confusing one to me
(naming themes is one of my favorite sub-games)
Asterix
It is said that you see what is going on - that if you guys got involved with the Rome, that would likely give the game away to India - but I also have no idea what to do about it
Yours theme is definitely the best
I guess you just go through the things that can be blamed on Caledorn?
I never research Suttoxy, but it sounds to me like French Republic
YossarianLives
Yes, exactly!
Asterix
you know, when they even re-name the months and such
YossarianLives
Caledorn is responsible for all things that go wrong
Maybe runaway civs will be our next city
Asterix
well, I hope you will never have a city "India's win", then
yeah, and "short-sighted players"
let me know if we can be of help
best way to contact me is in-game mssg
YossarianLives
Ok, sounds good
Asterix
very nice talking to you
ah, last question
YossarianLives
How have your barbs been, btw? We are starting to get lots of axes, and no horses to deal with them
Asterix
what do you think Rome would do when you tell them?
we saw only one axe so far
but there is almost no free land around us
YossarianLives
I think Rome will continue to ignore us, do whatever they were going to do anyways. I can only hope it will make them pause and consider attacking north to India
Asterix
we are between 13-city and 10-city civs
YossarianLives
Oh, you have TGW anyways, I forgot
Asterix
I think they will probably attack nobody then - but just my wild guess, not based on any communication with them
YossarianLives
Or maybe they will get smart and start talking to us and forget about praets and start playing to actually do well in the game
If they attack anyone, they will be screwed
Asterix
do you know what is the distance between Rome and India's borders?
yeah, we have NAP with barbs
YossarianLives
They are north-south neighbors. I don't have vision on that part of Rome, but I hear that India's Pyramids city is closest to Roman borders.
Rome settled in the ice for their Iron, so it is possible they are fairly close
Asterix
I think Rome may not be top players - they leader +civ combo is not flexible at all - and sorts of provokes neighbors to do what you did
I do not see Indian's pyramid city
I do not even now how broad the ice stripe is? I have heard 10 tiles, I think?
YossarianLives
If they had spoken with us, we would have given them NAP + favorable land division based solely on the fact that they are Rome. Then they could have taken out weak Dinosaurs team. Could have been a good play. Their biggest weakness is their diplo (or lack thereof)
I haven't counted, but Rome and Byz have touching borders
Asterix
yeah, that is true, too
oh, I did not know that
now i understand more why Eggheads got involved in this
YossarianLives
Yes, we may be the only Roman neighbor that has not settled right up to their borders
Asterix
OK, so it seems that so far the only thing we can do is to exchange info - but knowledge is power
YossarianLives
If the other neighboring teams would have been willing to offer concessions, we would have offered land as our gift to Rome. But we cannot be the only team to offer something. Better to stick with strength in numbers
Asterix
and I am pretty sure that you will emerge as a hegemon of the Southern hemisphere
and you say that it is too late now for you to give Romans land concession?
YossarianLives
Well, I cannot speak for the team. I haven't really floated the idea to anyone because nobody else seemed into the idea of bribing Rome
Asterix
yeah, I am not even Romans neighbors, but was ready to offer them money - but if their more direct neighbors like DT and Eggs do not like to do this, we cannot do this alone
you mena, not even people on your team?
I am alone now, so at least we agree inside of the team - most of teh time
Please keep in touch
and bye, then
YossarianLives
Caledorn and I are the main players of our team, but we also get some decent lurker input
When I posted your email and floated the idea of bribing Rome, the feeling I got was that the team felt our defensive pact would be enough to keep Rome away from us
Asterix
I am just by myself, but the advantage is i do not have to do the thread
YossarianLives
So I left it at that. Dinos and EggHeads also seemed to feel the same
Asterix
yeah, I think it will be enough to discourage Rome from attacking you
YossarianLives
The thread is fun!
Asterix
but as you said yourself, the real danger is India
YossarianLives
I am counting the views until our team surpasses you
Asterix
and I unfortunately agree with you, I am afraid they will be soon beyond anybody's reach
YossarianLives
Hopefully this will be recognized before it is too late
Asterix
seems that Yuufo whipped 2 more settlers last turn
YossarianLives
But for us right now, the main threat has to be Rome (and getting our economy back on track). If we don't address those things, then it doesn't matter if India is 500 points ahead
Asterix
yeah, i have no idea what is with the thread views
yeah, exactly. so looks like unsolvable dilemma
YossarianLives
Well let us know what your thoughts are re: India. You certainly have our moral support. And if there is anything we can do to help keep them in check, we will try
We have been egging (pardon the pun) Byz to think about how to address India, also

In-game message from T95:

Asterix
Hi Yossarian, I helped Romans to unpaused and we started to chat casually about the game ... and I have a very interesting info to share with you
will try to catch you on this chat within next couple of days

YossarianLives
Very interesting. I'm looking forward to our chat
Sorry we didn't agree to your in game proposal, btw. I wanted to get team feedback before deciding one way or another, but never heard back from anyone
Giving up all the gold would have been tough. We may not have needed it in the next four turns, but I haven't planned out that far ahead to know for sure

...8 hours later...

Asterix
no problem
I understand
YossarianLives
Hi
Are you around to chat?

And then nothing. I am very interested to hear what Gladiators and Asterix talked about.