RBPitboss #2 Athlete4life10 & Kalin

[athlete4life10]

Reply from Mali:

Hi Kathlete,

Iron Working as the free tech? Seems an odd choice given the stalemate + the probability that they have copper. Everyone knows swordsmen are useless for multiplayer... I'm sure the Byzantines are trying to convince you that it would be prudent for you to return their holy city for the sake of future relations etc so I'll be interested in seeing how that runs.

India's score is certainly climbing quickly, I would guess that they had a significant numbers of forests to chop early and used that to minimize their need to whip. I have been told they have Mathematics already so it would be nice if someone were to deter them from continuing this growth.

Have a happy and safe Xmas

-Dantski

I wonder if he's in any position to "deter" them.

[kalin]

Regarding our attack plan, I just realized that for almost all options, we'll have an extra HA available but it will have to attack across the river. Still good to have! Also I think it may be a bit early to start the celebration.

Athlete and I had some debate if to get a HA from Endor, and in the end we agreed to get it. I feel that while it delays the lib some in Endor, it is good to have the option to attack earlier if we can. The sooner we can eliminate Byzantium, the sooner we don't have to worry about them getting metal, or getting more archers inside the city.

I confirmed Athlete's espionage computation that they had a build on T74 with 14 hammers in it, which is most likely an archer. There is something strange though. They are size 4 and working 2 2F0H1G tiles... If they are building an archer they should have either whipped or at least work more hammers; for example they could work a 1F1H1G fur, a 1F1H grass hill, or a 0F2H plains hill, which would give them 2-3 more hammers. Working those 2F1G tiles makes little sense, unless they want the gold. Is it possible they are not paying attention? We should monitor their build...

Re: Mali. That was not the most convincing message... "[...] it would be nice if someone were to deter them [...]" sounds a bit passive. Maybe we can suggest that instead of "someone" there may be some "someones". It also looks like he hasn't the slightest idea about what's going on with Byzantium

Kalin

[athlete4life10]

Here's an overview of our current holdings:

[athlete4life10]

For side by side comparison at the end of the game!

Turn 75 - Top 5 cities list:


Turn 75 - Military Advisor (we're currently at 9/30 for a GG):


Turn 75 - City Advisor:


Turn 75 - Demographics:

[athlete4life10]

I confirmed Athlete's espionage computation that they had a build on T74 with 14 hammers in it, which is most likely an archer. There is something strange though. They are size 4 and working 2 2F0H1G tiles... If they are building an archer they should have either whipped or at least work more hammers; for example they could work a 1F1H1G fur, a 1F1H grass hill, or a 0F2H plains hill, which would give them 2-3 more hammers. Working those 2F1G tiles makes little sense, unless they want the gold. Is it possible they are not paying attention? We should monitor their build...

They've been doing this since we moved our chariots the way they are. Why is beyond me but that's what they're doing.

[athlete4life10]

Reply from HRE:

Dear athlete/kalin,

Thank you for resolving the open borders "dispute." I was quite startled at a previous email of yours so it's good to know that this was just a simple misunderstanding. You may defog our capital to get trade routes. (Just curious - do we both get the trade routes or do we have to defog the way to your capital?)

I still wish you the best of luck in your war. It seemed odd to me that Byzantium would actually build a wonder during a war, but I guess that's just the way things go. At the very least, they have denied the wonder to someone like the Speaker/Sullla team.

Speaking of that team, I am also concerned like you. It seems like they certainly did some extensive planning in the beginning of the game. Right now there isn't much we can do about them. They are to our north, but Dantski of Romalinese is in the way.

We will not share this information with any other team.

Sincerely,
DMOC of the DMOC/Nakor team for HRE

[athlete4life10]

E-mail off to Greece:

Hi Jowy,

We hope things are going well for you. We just wanted to let you know
about some developments that may be of interest to you.

We have engaged both HRE and Mali to try to create a ... coalition of
the willing against the Indian superpower. We told them we believe
they have WMDs (weapons of mass destruction) which are a threat to us
all!

Joke aside, we would like to have us, you, Mali, HRE, and maybe even
Rome send each some troops to attack India. The main objective of such
an operation will be to pillage their lands as much as possible, and
as secondary objectives to capture/raze cities. Of course, for you we
would try to capture or help you capture cities (if we take a city,
we'd gift it to you). We would need to discuss how many troops to give
you and how many to keep ourselves. We would want to be seen as
participating in this action ourselves given that we approached the
other people.

We would also like to know the timeline of your plan if you have one
at the moment. Also, how many troops do you think you'll have
available? We estimate we would be able to reach Indian territory
around turns 95-100 with 8-9 2-move units. We'll know more once
Byzantium falls.

Please note that we said absolutely nothing to anyone about our
relationship or about your plans. We should keep our relationship
secret.

Happy Holidays,
Kalin for Team A/K of the Ottomans

[athlete4life10]

E-mail off to the HRE:

Greetings friends DMOC and Nakor of the HRE,

Thank you for resolving the open borders "dispute." I was quite startled at a previous email of yours so it's good to know that this was just a simple misunderstanding. You may defog our capital to get trade routes. (Just curious - do we both get the trade routes or do we have to defog the way to your capital?)

I am glad we clarified then. On our side we were just confused. In the future, let's let each other know as much as possible about issues like this. We value our relationship and we don't want a misunderstanding to get in the way.

We will try to do defog to your capital, but now it may take a while, as our warrior will be heading N. I don't know if we both need to defog in order to get trade routes. Maybe we can ask the lurkers in our threads? In any case, I'll try to figure it out and let you know.

I still wish you the best of luck in your war. It seemed odd to me that Byzantium would actually build a wonder during a war, but I guess that's just the way things go. At the very least, they have denied the wonder to someone like the Speaker/Sullla team.

We also found it odd that they build the Oracle, but as you said better them than... some other team It is likely that they had started the wonder a while back, so they just finished it.

Speaking of that team, I am also concerned like you. It seems like they certainly did some extensive planning in the beginning of the game. Right now there isn't much we can do about them. They are to our north, but Dantski of Romalinese is in the way.

I will get straight to the point here I propose we try to gather a coalition... "of the willing" and go on an expedition to do something about them soon. I am thinking that if several teams send 4 to 6 or more units (a mix of spears, axes, chariots, maybe others) it will add up to quite a lot. The main objective of such an expedition would be to pillage as much as possible to even a little the field. A secondary objective would be to take/raze some cities. We would participate in such an endeavor if there is enough support. We believe that the action could start on turn 100 (25 turns from now) maybe even sooner. It is important to act as soon as possible, because if catapults come into play, things will get a lot harder!

The benefits of such an action is not only to slow down or even stop the strongest opponent by far. We would also get money from pillaging that we could all use to fund research, maybe capture some workers. The investment is not insignificant, but most of us now have 3/4 cities, so with a couple of whips per city one can get 6 units fast. Note that these units are not likely to die, so we would get to keep (hopefully) most of them. Another benefit is that it may create more space for the immediate neighbors, which in turn may translate into more land for the neighbors' neighbors

It is crucial to try to enlist the immediate neighbors in this action. We'd like to ask how are your relations with Dantski of Mali. We have good relations with Jowy of the Greeks. We are willing to engage both immediate neighbors on this and try to convince them that... there are WMD (weapons of mass destruction) next to them Since they stand to gain the most, I am hopeful that they may be willing to participate.

Let us know what you think about this. Of course, all this should stay between us.

Happy Holidays,

Kalin for Team A/K of the Ottomans

[athlete4life10]

And an e-mail sent to Mali:

Hi Dantski,

We'll keep you updated on our war.

> India's score is certainly climbing quickly, I would guess that they had a
> significant numbers of forests to chop early and used that to minimize their
> need to whip. I have been told they have Mathematics already so it would be
> nice if someone were to deter them from continuing this growth.

It's hard for a single "anyone" to do anything about this situation. However, several someones may be able to do something, what do you think? Maybe some coalition of the willing? I hear that they have WMD (weapons of mass destruction) which we all know are a threat to us all! Joke aside, I think it makes a lot of sense for you to get involved. I think you have potential for significant gains.

Please keep this confidential for obvious reasons, and let us know how you feel about this.

Happy Holidays,
Kalin for Team A/K of the Ottomans

[athlete4life10]

E-mail received from HRE:

Dear friends Kalin and Athlete,

Merry Christmas to the both of you and your families!
I've just returned from our family dinner, but it's a bit different with a daugther of 3 and a son of 2 months... didn't get a lot of chances to talk to my brothers/sisters... always busy with those two around.
Luckily they sleep now, so I have some time to respond to your very welcome last mail.

We still need to contact Rego, so we don't knwo how he is doing. Building the Oracle is no small feat, especially in times of war.
Can we assume that the war will end pretty soon due to a stalemate, or are you planning to drag it on?

But of course, that's not the reason for this mail. I really like to talk about your plan of forming a coalition to get S/S back in line. They are going to run away with this (not that unexpected) if we let them.
Your plan regarding a strike at turn 100 sounds good to us. We could field a nice army of about 6 axes to aid in the war.
I do think that pillaging shouldn't be the main objective. I'd be happier if we could take two cities or their capital from them. That would really set them back. Pillaging is nice and profitable and will set them down a bit, but those cities are the real problem.

We don't have visuality on S/S graphs yet, but are working on that. Do you know how large their army is?

We have a nice but difficult relation with Dantski of the Romalinese. They need room to expand, so a strike against S/S could help them if the get a city out of it, indeed giving us more room te expand. So we'll try to talk to them regaring this plan.
Our relations with Plako/Broker and Whosit are a lot better. Especially Whosit of Rome has mentioned that he sees S/S as a problem, he might be willing to aid us. And if he would be willing to send 3/4 preatorians, that would make the plan a lot more "workable". So we're willing to talk to those civ's as well, regarding the strike.

I won't send them messages before I hear your response.

Hope to hear from you soon!
Nakor of HRE