RBP3 IT Office - Email and technical issues

[sunrise089]

Deary deary me, why is it that no PB game is complete without various double-move disputes?

I firmly believe that the reason for this is that people have made the rule so complicated that it is much more open to abuse than a simple rule. When it comes to this dispute, you are both as bad as each other. I am angry that PB1 was brought up to slur Exploit when each game is different. Maybe he was wrong in that game but bringing it back up just causes aggro.

Also, some of you guys need to take some steps back from this game and take a deep breath. Its a game and it really isn't that important!

TT, Exploit has called me a rule breaker in RBP1 and RBP3. In RBP3 he also called me a liar. He's quit the game just like he quit RBP1. Those are out-of-game issues that I think it's fair for me to consider.

I think it's just very frustrating to members of my team to hear things like "it's just a game, not that important." That's true (though lets not overstate - it is a hobby we're putting hundreds or thousands of hours into), but doesn't it cut both ways? If DJCiv is too passionate, and Tech is too passionate, shouldn't the decision just come down to what the rules say?

And finally, how is this rule complicated and open to abuse? I will summarize it for the umpteenth time in this thread:

1) 2-side wars use a turn divided in half.
2) The attacker gets to pick the half they want, defender gets the other half.
3) The one clarification is that if the attacker wants the first half of the turn they need to have given the future defender time to observe any moves on the turn before the war, by making sure said defender has 12 hours after any moves to log in to the game.

EDIT: In fact. since when do games not carry over? Sullla (iron but not copper in RB events) and Ruff (cutesy game design) have both been called out by T-Hawk in RB SP events. Regoarrarr had RBP1 brought up lots in the RBP2 game. And I've seen spoiler threads in RBP2 where players either comment on other players' tendencies in other games or make mental notes to remember them for future games.

[Morgan]

Sunrise - I do not know the details of the move, but reading the comments posted by both sides it could be said that your team plans were interrupted with Expolit logging in, therefore some quick action was needed to expolit the oppertunity you'd identified and had planned on expoliting. Hence the posting of the DoW and the subsquent actions. You'll understand that this a devils advocate position, and possibily what some netural teams are thinking.

As for Expolits comments about the old guard, those are his comments not mine, you'll agree that it is step too far as I had posted. To be honest i'll think twice about defending the clique that RB undoubtable is.

[darrelljs]

Ok, Exploit, would you accept this compromise? We reload till the beginning of the game, India moves in the first half to coincide with their war with Maya, and that way you can react to their DoW.

Hmm...this is getting ugly. I'm not posting again, at least until Exploit has had a chance to respond to the above. I'm not helping at all and haven't been for several posts. Sorry guys .

Darrell

[sunrise089]

Sunrise - I do not know the details of the move, but reading the comments posted by both sides it could be said that your team plans were interrupted with Expolit logging in, therefore some quick action was needed to expolit the oppertunity you'd identified and had planned on expoliting. Hence the posting of the DoW and the subsquent actions. You'll understand that this a devils advocate position, and possibily what some netural teams are thinking.

As for Expolits comments about the old guard, those are his comments not mine, you'll agree that it is step too far as I had posted. To be honest i'll think twice about defending the clique that RB undoubtable is.

Ok, that's fair Morgan. But that (reasonable) possibility doesn't hold up once more facts are in IMHO. Darrell, regoarrarr, and I have already told you we planned the attack and were just waiting for people to get on TS. Speaker, not participating in this game, has confirmed it. If you want I can get Caesar1, another MP guy not even in my clan, to confirm it as well as he was also on TS. And, we've explained how our attack was a 1-move which Exploit couldn't see, involving units that hadn't moved from where they sat when Exploit last logged in the previous turn.

So with all that info out there, it seems to me that the knee-jerk possibility of us trying to quickly log in and gain some sort of advantage (which, again, is allowed by the rules) is eliminated unless we're all being dishonest.

So at this point, with things explained, do the neutral parties still think we were exploiting anything?

[Swiss Pauli]

I guess my understanding of the rule was that to claim the second half you had to move in that order the turn war was declared. Anyway, thanks for offering us our choice. Sunrise will post it in the near future.

Darrell

If the rules are clear, then how come this was your understanding of the rules, and your current position (attacker picks whichever half he prefers) is rather different?

I'm passing no judgement on the Sumeria-India dispute here, but merely pointing out that the DoW rules are open to different, reasonable interpretations.

[darrelljs]

If the rules are clear, then how come this was your understanding of the rules, and your current position (attacker picks whichever half he prefers) is rather different?

Okay, one more post .

I had not even read the rule when Maya declared war, I was just stating my impression. Recent events have forced me to become One with the RPB3 double move rule, its history, evolution, and impact on global warming. I plan on having my brain wiped as soon as possible.

Darrell

[sunrise089]

If the rules are clear, then how come this was your understanding of the rules, and your current position (attacker picks whichever half he prefers) is rather different?

I'm passing no judgement on the Sumeria-India dispute here, but merely pointing out that the DoW rules are open to different, reasonable interpretations.

Swiss, darrell also posted between our posts, but IIRC Maya sent us that post after they DOW'd and attacked us.

We're also more than happy to make our war moves and then let Exploit pick the turn order for the next turn

[Jabah]

1) 2-side wars use a turn divided in half.
2) The attacker gets to pick the half they want, defender gets the other half.

Note that I am just a lurker, and that is just may understanding of the "rules" and possibly of what had happened [from players declarations, might not be the strict truth]

To me once you have declare war, the turn HAS to be split immediatly.
So the turn you declare war, IF the declared one had already moved, then you are de facto playing second for this turn.
Then IF you are allowed to claim the 1st half, you WILL be double moving on turn 2.

From my reading the rules, this is allowed (even if the general idea was to prevent that - so before accepting that, everyone should be warned that it could happen to them anytime from now ).

Of course, I hope you all come to a gentlemen agreement quite soon.

Anyway, I think if players are strating to 'camp' around the turn-changing time (either before or after) you will always have problem with either not being able to claim the half you want [here] or have no time to react to a last minute action [PB2 ?]

[scooter]

So at this point, with things explained, do the neutral parties still think we were exploiting anything?

The only part that doesn't sit quite well with me is the declaring on the forums instead of in-game bit, but I may just be misunderstanding that issue. Other than that, I'm not really sure what you could've done differently given you were already locked into the first half due to your Mayan war. There will never be a perfect double-move rule and this one definitely is not, but if I'm understanding things right, the rules were followed, and we voted yes on these rules... If we want to revise them, then great, but not until after this situation is resolved.


(note: this is the opinion of me as a person, not the opinion of my team)

We have a bigger issue anyways, Exploit was serious when he said he quit (he just sent out an email to some people), so we need to find a replacement first.

[sunrise089]

The only part that doesn't sit quite well with me is the declaring on the forums instead of in-game bit, but I may just be misunderstanding that issue.

Scooter - You're not misunderstanding things, we just thought DOW'ing in the forums was the best way to give maximum possible notice. We didn't actually know Exploit was in game when I made my forum post - it was click "post message," alt-tab to civ, click "connect."

Anyways as soon as we made it into the game I DOW'd Exploit and sent him a link to the IT thread. He then paused the game, made his post, and here we are.