[PBEM9 - SPOILERS] Pacal of the Ottoman Empire

[Pegasus]

I know how you feel regarding the war declaration. Back in PB2, I agonized over a particular declaration (although one could argue it was for less honorable/valid reasons). But, what's done is done (though I approve of the gutsy, ruthless move!). I suggest that you sit down and figure out what your long-term strategic goals are, and then figure out how you can best achieve those goals. I imagine, from what you have written, that it has something to do with securing a secure corridor to expand. I assume that you do not want a return to the status quo ante bellum.

On another note, I don't think that covering your wounded Archer was the best move, since even a healthy Archer is toast when on open flatland against an Axeman. Was the wounded Archer particularly important?

My original plan was to expand in peace. Work Kodii onto my good side and the two of us expand West. Me taking the North at some point and Kodii taking the South. Well I can dream right

Now, i'm not sure, and I know you are right. I do need to sit back and work out what is the right play.

1) Try and secure peace with Kodii and a border settlement agreement
2) With maths coming in next turn, I might make a play for the HG.
3) Settle the NW of Cats Lair and SE of Cats Lair, then I am probably squeezed out of room on the main land unless I can get closer to the centre, but settling west of the mountain pass makes me feel really uneasy about holding it.

4) Maybe get a few Galleys into the water for 2 reasons. 1) Explore the island north of Cats Lair 2) Stop any funny business by Kodii.

Of course if 1 fails, then I need to ensure I can hold my border cities, get the horses hooked up and probably go on the offensive to choke before he chokes me. I have an Axe out of Daggers and an Archer out of Snowdom next turn. I can whip another Axe probably next turn out of Daggers, and the turn after I get another Axe out of Cats Lair. I'm hoping this is enough to see off anything Kodii has.

The wounded archer was my Combat 1 Archer. Wasnt sure if I would get valuable xp or not from it and if I was going to lose any, I think I would prefer to lose the healthy one and retreat the promoted one. Fingers crossed the RNG gods helped me out

[Jowy]

Actually, nevermind, I misread. Anyway wasn't anything important ^^

[Jabah]

4th city, short term in case of war, you could settle it 1NE of where boundary was, on a hill controling the area. With several archer, 1axe & 1spear, it will be too costly to remove before cats (I guess). On the other hand, it doesn't get you the horse or a sure access to the center and you will also have trouble with the forrest SE of it (but no more than with the jungle opposite the horse)

[Pegasus]

A quick update before I play my next turn and find out what hsa happend in the inter turn.

Diplo wise I have all of a sudden become everyones friend

Well almost everybodies :neenernee

It's amazing how diplo picks up when something kicks off.

Spoke to Ruff in chat, he was keen to understand the circumstances and seemed pretty pleased - but then again 2 oponents going at it across the land is only beneficial I suppose to him and the others.

We agreed a 20 turn Nap exactly like I have with mackoti.

I have an email from Sylon fishing for some rundown of last turn. What I didnt mention last turn in all of the excitement was he has a fishing boat exploring. He's asked for open borders. I don't see why not as long as he doesnt go telling Kodii anything he sees in my borders. Not that I have much to hide, but would rather not fuel Kodii's info at the moment just in case.

Kodii sent me some diplo. I'm going to quote this in full.

Pegasus,

I am unpleased with your actions.

Is it understandable? Completely.

Will it be a detriment to our relationship? Yes.

I appreciate your offer of a cease fire, but it would be illogical for me to simply let you walk away, considering your aggression.

I will be settling the disputed area again, but once again we can bring this up for discussion. Since you have outright refused my attempt at a reconciliation, obviously settling my city in the same location would not do either of us any favour. Similarly, should you settle there (which I will not allow you to do), then I will be forced to be the aggressor.

I plan to settle 1SW of where Boundary was originally. This is the only compromise I can make for the sake of my own homeland security. I recommend that you quickly settle a border city somewhere north of there (on the horses etc) if you have any concerns about my cultural pressure. Otherwise, you can only blame yourself (other than the mapmaker) for being cut off from the centre.

- Kodii

Hello Kodii,

Your repsonse was better than I expected in all honesty especially for such a quick reply.

Until the turn comes around I will not know of your actions.

Rest assured, I have no intentions of settling on Boundary, although it did cross my mind for a brief second. I have every intention of sharing the disputed area in some sort of compromise. Can we not come to an agreement on the settling of the disputed land?

Settling on horses again is not ideal, but better than my previous options a turn or two back. In fact had you settled boundary there we could have been good.
Would you consider settling on the Silks 1S of your proposed new city location? I will settle 1S of horses. How does that sound?


Pegasus

Pegasus,

I am not one to rush to conflict or anger.

Your proposed location disregards my safety concern about the mountain range surrounding the original Boundary. I would like to have control of the tile that the razed city is on.

- Kodii

Does he really have a Settler ready to go?? Mine is currently on horses. I could settle like he suggests. Then again I could move onto Silks and settle there or like Jabah has suggested onto the Hill East of Silks but that would take 3 turns.

Settling silks or the hill tile is not going to please Kodii I doubt based on his preference to control the tile where boundary is.

I like the hill tile and would like to settle over there, but I also feel I need to get presence by the horses.

I can't say I am really sure what to do in this situation at the moment.
Settling on horses is not ideal, but I may have no choice if Main is roaming around free and dandy. It might bring about peace between us quicker, which is now my top priority.

[Pegasus]

T74 played.

Kodi atacked my Archer (full health) and killed it easily at 94.5% odds.
My promoted archer got another promotion so I upgraded to Shock which improved it's health by a few turns.



As you can see, I felt it probably best to settle on the horses in the end. Kodii has 3 axes in near vacinity, so unless I can secure peace, i'm going to need a few chariots around. Daggers Rock, whipped a chariot ready for next turn. Cats Lair completes an axe next turn, then I will focius on another chariot asap out of there.

In the mean time I have sent another email to Kodii, asking for peace once more. Fingers crossed he accepts, but with 3 axes around (1 on rice you cant see) he might feel he can come cause havoc in my lands.

[Pegasus]

Looks like the turn has got held up between Ruff and Sylon.

Had a bit of diplo action over the last 24-48 hours.

A couple of interesting points to note:

First from Sylon

Dear Pegasus,

It's been two months (!) since our last correspondence, but it seems we've finally met in game again! You probably have noticed my workboat poking around your coast lately; though in the excitement of the last few turns it might have gone unheeded.

Well, I won't press you for details on the conflict; it is far away and has nothing to do with me. What I am interested in is an open borders agreement. I feel it would benefit us both if our borders were to be opened for trade, and through that, possibly lay down the grounds for possible cooperation between us. If you would prefer to have a no-scouting clause in the treaty, please say so and I shall turn my workboat around and leave immediately.

I hope our relations go well from here on.

Sincerely,
Sylon

Hi Sylon,

2 Months! Really. It's as much my fault for allowing it to go that long.

I did notice you heading round amidst all of the excitement of last turn. I'm happy to allow you to pass through and have offered open borders.
How is the coast line looking?

I don't mind you passing through, but would prefer at this sensitive moment that what you can see in my lands, you do not share with others.
Not that there is much to see mind. If you have any sort of agreement with Kodii, that you are to report to him my lands, then I ask you to reject the open borders and turn around.

With things being a little tense at the moment, I think you can understand my above request.

We had a little disagreement over a border which hemmed me in, in the north. It's not as clean as that, he did offer me rights of way through his lands, but I felt and let him know prior to his settlement that it felt like a choke and I would be a sitting duck later in the game. I had a 1 turn window of opportunity to raze it and after quite a bit of deliberation I took that chance. Needless to say Kodii is not happy with me now. But I am trying to work on building up some trust, otherwise it will only give you, mackoti and ruff better chances.

Whats life like over your side? Is it as tight as it is over to the East? Are border tensions rising or have you guys been wise enough to come to some sort of agreements?


Pegasus

Dear Pegasus,

Thanks for signing the treaty. I can assure you I have no intentions of sharing what I see in your lands with other people. To sign a treaty of Open Borders, in my opinion, is to agree never to reveal what is within those borders to anyone else.

The coastline is fairly unremarkable, but I'm hoping to follow it northward and explore the islands there. If my hypothesis on the islands does in fact happen to be correct, I'm going to have to have a very pleasant talk with our dear mapmaker. There will be tea and crumpets present.

Putting that aside, the western end of the map is fairly spacious, with Ruff's lands and mine being separated by a thick stretch of jungle. Needless to say, neither of us are in a hurry to settle it.

The central area of the map, however, is quickly getting quite crowded, with the lands having been split between Mackoti, Kodii and myself. Looking at the wealth of the land, I can't say I'm terribly surprised.

You've probably figured it our by now, but the map is an upside down U-shaped toroidal with an island archipelago linking the north and south hemispheres together. What I've explored of the archipelago indicates that the islands extend all the way to your coast, which is what I'm looking to confirm with my workboat.

Finally, on the subject of your with Kodii, I can only wish you the best of luck. If you should ever need my services as a peacebroker, you only need ask.

Sincerely,
Sylon

I've not given the actual map layout any thought at all over the past 10 or so turns. Upside down U with linking islands Not sure what to make of it at the moment. I originally had visioned a star shaped land mass with Kodi and Ruff at the feet of the star, Sylon and myself at the Arms of the star, with Mackoti taking he top part (head).
I need to sit down and write down some strengths / weaknesses of my position within the map. It was nice of Sylon to share with us though of his thoughts on the map.


I've had a bit of diplo with Kodii too.

On settling horses, I thought I would try and smooth the way back.

Hello Kodii,

I understand your message loud and clear. I don't want to antagonise things and make them worse that what they are. I am happy for you to control the tile Boundary was on and have allowed you room to settle on the Jungle hill.

You will notice in game I have decided to settle on the horses. Not ideal, but a better compromise than fighting for the disputed area. I only wish we could have negotiated this a few turns prior.

I have once again offered a cease fire in game should you wish to accept. I don't want to be at war with you, and I hope we can work this out and get along somehow.



Pegasus



Hi Pegasus,

I have accepted peace. I am glad that we have had the chance to work this out. It is a shame that there wasn't enough time to have this sorted out earlier, but I think my actions are partially to blame for that.

- Kodii

Result!

Still only halfway towards target 1 though, but a cease fire certainly goes a long way. Just need to try and secure a nap now. I sure as hell don't think he will let me get off scot free, and I just feel at this moment he will be gunning for me at some point, and maybe this mistrust is felt by him too. But still, one step at a time.

[Pegasus]

Turn 75 played. Sylon has asked for comparison piccies so I will display them below. Whosit also got me thinking about some structure to my game and what I need to plan to do. I will try and tie up the two in one go.


First of all the map.



I don't think I have done very well in map exploration compared to others. I could have and probably should have let Cheetarah continue on West rather than try and make early contact as they managed to find my lands fairly easy later on. Although to counteract that I did get to reveal Kodii's northern lands.

Do you lurkers like the pics with resources on or off? Personally I like them on, but if you think the picture is too busy, I will keep that in mind next time.

Back to the map, we know Kodii has some good land SE of "Wonderland" as Sylon deems it and mackoti has another good city NW. I am really nervous about settling the NE of this area, but at the same time , can't really allow Kodii to take it for himself either. In fact is that the worse of two evils?
He already has a monster of a GNP lead as is.

The other 2 city placements will be NW of Cats Lair up by the spices and then the last city East of Dagger Rocks to fill the space there.


Now the current cities.



My Capital.
Hybrid city. Would be good for hammer and coin in Beauracracy I feel. I think my aim for here will be to mine and cottage spam.

In the short term, my aim is to get at least one if not 2 settlers out of here and possibly a couple more workers.

Medium to longer term, I can see infrastructure and unit generation coming from here.


My 2nd city



Again another hybrid city.

Aim is to get at least one settler out of here and maybe a worker or two also.
Like Cat's lair, the aim will be to get infrastructure and units out of here.

You will notice I am researching Priesthood right now. I am tempted to chop out the Oracle here for 2 reasons. 1) I think picking up Metal Casting here could be really useful for Forges / Tiremes on this map. 2) The GP pts for a prophet will come in nicely for a shrine for extra $.
There are 3 nearby forests available worth 90 hammers now meaning I only need to generate 30 more. With 2 iron and stone on hand, if I can get my workers lined up properly, I might get lucky to steal this wonder

Then again I may be too late and the play will be complete and utter


My third city



For the moment I think this city will be my Military city, ensuring each city has enough in defence and securing my borders.

My fourth city



Well there not much that can be said about this city that you probably havn't read in my previous posts recently. This is my newly negotiated border city to my south. After compromising with Kodii and agreeing not to go further south (another move maybe) but for now this city is building some infrastructure to get some culture going and then will probably become a military city helping out Snowmans Kingdom.


My fifth city

Ok so it's not yet built but my aim is to whip it out of Dagger Rocks ASAP, before it starts on the Oracle. If I can secure a decent NAP with Kodii, I think I have to go for that northern spot before he does. I don't like it but as mentioned earlier it is probably the better of two evils. If he secures that site not only does he block me in, but also secures another good site to push up his GNP. I just hope I can hold it when he comes after me. And I have no doubt in my mind, he will come after me at some point!


Sixth city

This will be my city NW of Cats Lair.

My aim with this city will be to get some culture in first ASAP, then a hammam and then the HG. There are plenty of trees to chop up there, and with stone connected, i'm hoping I have this one in the bag. But before I get this built, I need to make sure I have my seventh city in place.

Seventh city

This is going East of Dagger Rocks.

Not quite sure what this city will do at the moment. I imagine it will be a small fishing village, generating some $ and maybe where convenient some GPP for a scientist maybe short term. Really it's just a land filler.

Other cities include maybe settling the islands north of Cats Lair, but I think I am getting ahead of myself.


And now the Demogs..



Look at Kodiis GNP It is nearly double mine! If I fall behind military tech wise I am going to be toast I feel. I need to try and do something about this which is why I feel I cannot let him take the northern spot too.

MFG wise I am doing ok, but not the best, so theres more work to be done here.

Crop Yield is pretty decent and I have a Corn not currently being utilised. Once the Corn under the forest comes online too, I should be doing alright in this category. I have 3 workers on the forest chopping the corn at the moment. Problem is I cant irrigate that in time and get my workers over to chop out an Oracle

Thanks to maths coming in and whipping out a Chariot and Cats Lair producing an axe my soldier points look pretty decent, but I have to admit I am still feeling pretty vulnerable.

Land wise we are all pretty even and as for the rest, I care very little. Probably because I fail to understand it properly

[Pegasus]

Really long day today! Not only finished late from work, but then had to go out. To top it off, I only end up having to park my car in a car park to which I need to get back up a hill

Just going to play my turn now, but got this email from mackoti during the day.

I had few free time, and some toghts crossed my mind. I seen you were at war with Kodii, i dont know why , that does't concern me very much,something else make me worry.I talk with Sylon about doing something aginst KOdii like not opening borders, and he didn't reply nothing, just trying to distract may atention from that. So like a conclusion i think Kodii is working with Sylon, so what i want to propose is like 2 of us working together.I still have a NAP with Kodii until turn 100 but we are not that far away( and i intend to respect that).Just witi me back what you think about this,
Regards,
Mackoti

Looks like somebody is up for some war action

I have a few thoughts on this, but will post probably tomorrow as I am tired now and just want to get the game moving along.

[Pegasus]

With Kodii steamrolling the GNP at the moment, I have to admit, receiving this email from mackoti did please me a little. Kodii will at some point probably need slowing down before he gets a whopping tech advantage (and yes I am still paranoid it will be me who suffers the wrath mid game ).

I wasn't quite sure what he had in mind, what ideas he had to stop Kodii or how he could propose to stop Kodii, but I felt it would be in my interests to at least find out.

His comment about Kodii and Sylon working together could be true, but I also believe that mainly the fact that Sylon has a WB wandering around out borders at the moment is of no benefit to him to cancel open borders with Kodii at this moment in time.

[Pegasus]

We are up to T78 played now. Sorry no screenies this time

Over the past few turns a little diplo went on between Mackoti and myself.
On T77 Mackoti was getting a little impatient and was pushing for a response as he left me a brief message on his file attachment email asking for a response.

Hello Mackoti,

Apologies for not getting back to you sooner. With Xmas festivities well in the swing over here in the UK I have just not managed to find the time to play through this turn as quickly as we had been doing.

My war with Kodii was a brief encounter over a little dispute about settling rights in and around our borders. We have now made peace in game.

You have an interesting proposal. Your concern about not opening borders with Kodii I doubt Sylon would agree to because he currently has a WB wandering around exploring the coast and has made his way through Kodii's borders and is now currently going through mine. Your proposal might therefore have not benefited Sylon at that time.

What are you planning, and by when? What would you require from the Thundereans?

Best regards,


Pegasus

I'm not really sure if I want to get involved in this at the moment. I think I am way behind on development and really need to stick to my plans set out earlier. Joining in an early war with mackoti I can't see benefiting either of us, unless Kodii collapses and I get his land to the SE, which I seriously cannot see happening.



Mackoti responded quite quickly.

I will be frank with you, this is my first multi pbem and ,not first pbem because i played h a heads up( i quite alot of those, no diplomacy, always war, quitte easy if you campare with this one),and i dont know alot how to do diplomacy but i know to keep my words ,so:
I have a Nap with KOdii until turn 100, after that i am thinking to do a move against him, and i want an ally for that, for some reasons you are the best candidate for that, for that we have to keep Kodii as weak as we can so for that no open borders with him.
We can share his lands i only want the central city(wich was barbarian before, and perhaps the other one) and you could have all the rest(quite a few if you ask me)
What i am asking from you is like you to dont share this message with anyone,and if this is not ok with came with another offer, or just send me a message for example"I have others plans''.
And Btw when our NAP is ending, i realy want to have another one in place.
regards,
Macedon

Ok so now we see the real crooks of the matter. Mackoti wants to expand south and wanted that Barb city, and also possibly the city of First. I can't imagine I would be particularly pleased with him taking First in all honesty.

Whats interesting is he has decided to allow me the rest of Kodii's cities.

Thats very kind of him I don't really have the military to put up any opposition at the moment, and although I like his idea in principle a) I cannot see it happening without any significant assistance from Mackoti, and like I mentioned earlier way way off my plan that I have set up to follow.

I have not come up with a response yet, but somehow I need to respectfully decline.

I have no objections for Mackoti to get it on with Kodii, but I can't see any assistance coming from myself. I have no objections to extending the NAP either at this moment in time. Maybe with that security it would encourage Mackoti to attempt to take the Barb city.

The only question is should I agree to keep our diplo a secret or warn Kodii?
Is it bad faifth? I wouldn't mind lurker input on this.

If it is deemed bad faifth I wouldn't, even if it is not bad faifth i'm not sure I would anyway as it would be a bad dilpo hit with Mackoti too then. However, it could be a +1 diplo with Kodii to ease the fall out earlier.

Oh what to do ...


Anyway back to city development. Worker whipped out of Cats Lair and back onto a hammam. Daggers Rock has stopped building a settler for now and started the Oracle, to grow back to happy cap. Most of my workers are in place to chop 3 forests, which should be done in the next couple of turns.

Snowmans kingdom has finished its Archer and started on a Hammam for extra happies. Oh and Hinduism spread there too

Pass of Rockemn is building a monument for culture and working the corn for max growth atm.