This is a Spoiler thread - Dreylin, PB28

[Dreylin]

t66 -

Whosit has decided there's no longer a need for a peacetime turnsplit, which is nice.

Here's Grimace's new city:


No first-ring food, and none pre-improved in the second ring for it to work either. I guess he's going to chop in the Ikhanda and then wait 10t to improve the Pigs. Or maybe there's a second Settler following to plant past the Pigs?

Fake Edit: or his "missing" city could be to the SW claiming those Sheep.

Meanwhile, there is also a disappointing lack of food available for the Western island:


I may have made a mistake with the WB, as it looks like this long spit is not a small island and the land turn West in the fog (hints of a river visible suggest a medium-sized island at least.

[Dreylin]

t68 -

Well, I now have 3/5 of my cities building Settlers ... probably one of those should be a Worker.

I'm also pretty sure that this is a linking island and not another "main" landmass:


Main clue = Jungle. I think I'm going to write the WB off as a long-distance scout and build another when I need it.

Whosit planted another city, which is fast work. I can't see borders.

Checked Grimace's cities and there's an Ikhanda in the three older ones I can see (including the cap), which must be pushing up his Power rating.

Jowy seems to be getting the better of Adrien/Mardoc, though doubtless it's their island-mate who is really reaping the rewards. I hope that is Fenn per my theory, as I think the other 3 are stronger players.

Note to self, check the event log next turn...

[Dreylin]

I've been reviewing my dotmap quite a bit over the last couple of days and will continue to do so until probably after I've settled the thing!

In the West, I've just about decided that I need to move my blocker 1W to block off the coastal spot 1NW of the Deer. I'm not going to grab for that spot, but I'd rather Whosit not settler it and steal my Deer. It also creates a good coastal DMZ between any likely spot of his and mine. (Back to this in a bit)

Things are proving a bit more complicated in the NE; here's what I had as a dotmap:


As you can see my next two city spots created a perfect position for Grimace to be able to fork me from. Now you may say, well why not just grab that spot yourself and defend it; three reasons:

1) the city site is (I think) closer to his capital than mine, let alone the borders stealing the Pigs from his (questionable) city
2) AGG Impis
3) PBEM68

Messing about with the screenshots I have available (which are not very thorough and need augmenting / updating) I came up with this (the White location is, I think, the hub of the island):


This creates a strong central front city location that's more reasonable than the previous, and with the Southern city blocks anything N, S or W of the Peak. But the supply lines back to Arkose and even Granite are long, so it's a bit out on its own ... and maybe it's not inoffensive enough.

I keep coming back to DMZ and inoffensive settling patterns as I think it is very important for me to be aware of that this game. I've read several Lurker threads where the discussion turns to Strategy verses Tactics - i.e. selecting your goals verses how you go about achieving them - and how even the best tactics in pursuit of the wrong goal can lose you the game. So what is my strategy, and how am I pursuing it?

Strategy: Remain competitive during early game, then leverage M:II's "Infinite Cheap Buildings™" during the mid game to build an economic advantage and "Try to take over the World™".

Cornerstone tactics:
1) Don't get dogpiled. In fact, try to avoid becoming a target at all. This may be difficult to accomplish with a pair of AGG neighbours with early game traits, so I'm aiming for a duel approach of (a) conscious concessions in settling, (b) maintaining a larger than average military (the STX-deterrent doctrine). The latter is a work in progress, but the former is driving my thoughts at the moment. Fortunately both UUs are countered by Axes, and the terrain makes horse units less effective. I could see an early-ish Feudalism play after Currency as a way to assure of this longer-term.
2) Secure defensive front and then backfill. Noting that per 1), I won't be overreaching into "someone else's territory" as best I can.
3) Island expansion for economy. What I've seen of the (likely) linking island is a lot of flat grassland with numerous rivers suggesting it will be a cottage paradise compared with the hill country of the mainland. Plus, of course Intercontinental trade routes. Of course this is not itself without danger, since it's likely these linking islands will be accessible by 2 or 3 other civs with similar ideas.
4) goto 1)


So tonight's plan is to take a current set of regional screenshots to play with dotmapping; including from Grimace's point of view to see what he might consider fair.

[Dreylin]

[Dreylin]

t70 -

Long day, so not going to put current dotmapping thoughts down, but the presence and placement of this Axe is interesting and bears watching (I put the Scout underneath him):


Also, Whosit's Warrior is WoodsII so I will be keeping a close watch on it and killing it if the opportunity arises.

Whipped the Settlers in Granite and Serpentinite; will overflow into an Axe and a Galley respectively. Gneiss whips it's Settler in 3t, which should overflow to complete the Library.

Also, I think I may be about to meet another neighbour:

[Dreylin]

I've stared a lot an the map over the last couple of days and even trying a different perspective I don't like that Wines city:


My conclusion is that it must be a linking city to support a push out to one of the three "?" locations, but I'd have thought that using a city planted for the other Pigs (up from the Silver in the rotated image) would have been better simply because it would be able to do something useful itself. Grimace whipped once last turn so I expect he's got a new Settler out, but I can beat him to where I want to settle in that area. (more on that below)

Before moving on though, there is one of his cities missing from my maps, so I've been trying to guess where it is. I do like his NE and SW city placements for sharing resources; if he's following an expand out and backfill strategy as I am, then I'd expect him to have planted towards Whosit - maybe 3W of the Cap (up in the picture) to grab the other pigs second ring and share the Deer with his coastal city. OTOH, I think that I'd be tempted by that 3rd-ring Deer to the North and planted next to it for the Fish & Horses. I've circled an odd road in that region, which somewhat supports my theory (I think) although if that indicates he's planted on that tile itself, it's another awful location since it orphans the Fish and leaves the Horses to the island city.

At this point I'll note for the mapmaking record that my start has no 3rd-Ring food resources, and he has seafood for both of his near islands. He does have it worse though since his Classical Happies are split between Monarchy and Calendar while mine are just Calendar.


OK, so noting the three "?" spots and the Axe positions as potential Grimace dotmapping, let's take a look at mine:


The SE dotmap is pretty-much set and won't be much affected by the border; the city beside the Deer would be a late filler, while that island is where I would be expecting to put my Moai, using the Horses & Deer until it's completed and then returning them to the adjacent cities.

The border is mostly building backwards from the circled "1" spot in the East; that is IMO opinion the ideal spot for the coastal border - good Food resources (likely losing the Sheep), good productivity, and not too much coast. It allows Grimace to plant a city to claim the Fish ... provided he does not actually settle on the spot the Axe is guarding. Planting for the Fish myself would be too much of a reach IMO, but the "2" spot there orphans the Fish and may be taken the wrong way.

Actually, my /perfect/ border would be the far Eastern "2", 1N of the "2" beside the Deer, and the final city on the tile NE of Arkose's Pigs ... however since that latter tile is a Peak, I'm left in this mess of my own creation.

As I said previously, I think that the central "2" spot is a little in your face for my stated aim of preemptive territorial concession - particularly with consideration of Grimace's likely dotmap - so I'm left with "1a" and "1b" under consideration. I've been looking at this while writing it and I probably also should add a "1c" location to the East of "1b" and look at it as well.

So, I'm going to look at pros and cons of each ... but you'll have to wait on that since it's now time to head home from work! More later....

[Dreylin]

OK, so 1a vs 1b vs 1c, I guess.

1a:
PRO - Hill
CON - no first-ring food (after rolling my eyes at Grimace)
PRO - closer support from Granite
PRO - can work Copper after border pop
CON - allows Grimace free-reign to settle up for all the food™
Settle t72

1b:
CON - flatland
PRO - Sheep first-ring
CON - further from Granite
PRO/CON - cannot work Copper, but allows filler on that tile
PRO/CON - blocks the "Central City" location
Settle t72

1c (East of 1b):
PRO - Hill
PRO - Sheep first-ring
CON - further from Granite
PRO/CON - cannot work Copper, but allows filler on that tile
PRO/CON - allows the "Central City" location
PRO/CON - coupled with the coastal spot and Grimace's Axe spot blocks all additional settling in the area
Settle t73

1d (West of 1b):
CON - flatland
CON - no first-ring food (after rolling my eyes at Grimace)
PRO - can borrow Arkose's Pigs after border pop in 7t
PRO - closer support from Granite & Arkose
PRO/CON - cannot work Copper, but allows filler on that tile
PRO/CON - blocks the "Central City" location
CON - allows Grimace free-reign to settle up for all the food™
Settle t72

Bleurgh, that didn't help much at all, I just ended up with more options and no obvious decision!

Well, perhaps 1c is the clear winner for the buffer zone it creates, but since that buffer is on Grimace's side of the halfway line it would go against my territorial concession plan. OTOH, it's not my fault if Grimace's dotmap doesn't fit with mine, nor that his IMP civ is being out-expanded by a non-IMP competitor.

Well, time to sleep on it and see if my mind changes overnight (again).

Fake edit: used Google this afternoon to work out Grimace's naming scheme, so I feel a bit better that "Peace on Earth" is not a collaboration hint to Whosit's theme ... just a bit better.

[Dreylin]

Well I eventually decided to go throw out inoffensive settling and got with 1c, which will be planted next turn. There's a good chance I'll also grab for the "Central City" location as well at some point, although I really need a period of consolidation after these 3 cities go down and bankrupt my economy.

Good news from the turn is that Whosit was quite happy to double-move me with his WoodsII Warrior - and evacuate it out of the area. He's probably looking for another Barb kill to get CHM's easy HE unlock.

Speaking of, there's a Barb Warrior in the West that will meet the sharp end of my Axe probably next turn. That city goes down the turn after. Meanwhile, I'll 2Pop whip Gneiss this turn and use the overflow to complete the Library. Then it will be research on and run to Maths. There's a strong chance I'll got through Maths to Masonry and try a grab at the HG. Arkose will be the place to do it with plenty of remaining forests and a good production base ... unless someone is kicking up a fuss and I need to put out more units instead. We'll see.

Next round of foodhammer units will be Workers to catch up on the expansion, but I'll also start cooking a Settler for the SE Island spot and 2c trade routes....

[Dreylin]

This pause makes me sad.

[Dreylin]

t73 -

Recovering from 4yo's Birthday Party, so quick update:



Whosit has pushed a Monument as well as the Barracks into his border city; Barracks in 2t, but I think it's too late and I'll lose the Sheep.