[SPOILERS] Small Wunders and Izzy of Inca: The fat lady sings

[WilliamLP]

We caught a settling party of Bacchus. As we've debated before, I don't think we can crush all fronts with military at once, and this is the one I'm quite happy to yield on. The desert 1S of the oasis is a good city claiming the dry corn and I'm happy to let him have it. If he tries to settle up more aggressively than that he'll get punished, since it will be easy to do so. I'd much rather have Bacchus take that spot than Retep, that's for sure.

Nobody is building military on the power graph.

Ignore the research bar, we're on Currency at 0%.

I also am keeping EP at the minimum to see Ichabod's research, and our neighbours' graphs and putting the rest (not much) into Retep to try and prevent city visilibility. I think Scooter's graphs are a luxury we can't afford, unfortunately for the entertainment factor.

I think we're certain to get the desert hill settlement now. I see no settler in range of a blocking site this turn.

[MindyMcCready]

At the end of the day I'm unconvinced, but ok let's go for currency and see what happens.

Thanks. Now it better work out or I'm in trouble. :LOL:

Lots of good points in your post, so its definately debatable. A market with the shrine is a very strong point that I hadn't made and fits in well with your run at the TOA.

I'm pretty unsold on wealth,

To be honest, I've never seen the rationale in this either. It does allow flexibility and it can hugely help you win wonder races, but outside of certain situations I've never seen the baseline value in this depite the near blanket use found in the plays of many of the big dog/veterans.

In general 1 hammer > 1 commerce, and I almost always have relevant buildings that I'd like to build. The counter to this is the value of tech sooner which, of course, isn't quantifiable.

Thought maybe you'd be handing me a T-Hawk article on how its so good. :LOL:

Having said that, it may be pretty good in the situation where we want to rush out a bunch of cities for the sake of a land claim while keeping afloat. Which I'd guess is what all those Rexing veterans use it for,...

Currency at breakeven is 16-ish turns,

Well that's pretty fast, so there might be some time to fit in something before hand.

Given my role as military advisor I'm not in the position to decide so I don't want to unduly bind you through pressure to what you may consider a suboptimal decision. The reason that I said that I would make my points and move on is for precisely that reason - I've made my points and I'm ready to move on with what you decide.

I simply have no perspective on how many cottages we have, or will have, or when they'll grow, or when the cities will grow,...etc, etc. I may harass a bit, but I totally get that it's your game.

So if you think that we can fit in something before crashing and/or that we'll have relevant buildings to build if we're not in a hot war, then I'm good. We should save gold anyway, so you've got plenty of time to decide.

I'm also not even convinced that Alphabet before currency is not a better idea.

Relevant buildings to build is my only concern on this front. If you think you've got that base covered, then yes, it probably would end up better.

Spies are also pretty good to have for the Ichabod front and/or the Retep front.

I think sailing is a hugely desirable tech: for the contacts and getting Buddhism out. Getting 1 player to adopt it who otherwise wouldn't is worth a very large amount of gold forever.

In BtS I'd be considering gifting a missionary or 2 to Bacchus, for the long term value of the shrine. But we can't do that in RBMod without alphabet.

I'm not so sure about the value of providing others with missionaries. First I don't believe that I've witnessed players spread a religion in any meaningful way that wasn't their own. It might happen, but I haven't actively observed it (players probably wouldn't report how they're spending hammer to give gold to their opponent) . So assuming that they don't actively spread our religion then its the 1 gpt making up for the 40H which isn't a great return. We're also elevating the status of our opponents with culture + happy.

We'll argue forever, but I don't see the Market as a game-changing building. It's good. But not so good that delaying starting them 5-10 turns is a massive opportunity cost.

As I said, it's your call. You're much closer to the ground than I am to judge this. I made my points and am ready to move on. I won't be bitter, honest!

The analysis is how long does a 75 hammer investment take to pay for itself in gold? So it will pay back in about 15 turns, being optimistic.

Well you've convinced me to go currency. :LOL:

My objective would be to turn tech/buildings into 5 more cities and then into power. From where I'm standing I see currency as doing that best, but I get that it's debatable.

[MindyMcCready]

We caught a settling party of Bacchus. As we've debated before, I don't think we can crush all fronts with military at once, and this is the one I'm quite happy to yield on. The desert 1S of the oasis is a good city claiming the dry corn and I'm happy to let him have it.

Well it should come as no surprise to you that I'd want to kill off Bacchus. :LOL:

But let's go with the pro-tip and do it for profit. Let him plant it. Size 2 or after we should try to take it. I'm just advocating for a rational return on military investment.

Aside, Bacchus has only whipped twice in the last 2 turns so,....FAKE WAR with Retep.

I think we're certain to get the desert hill settlement now. I see no settler in range of a blocking site this turn.

Scary but good. We'll know 20T from now if this was a strong play or one that brought us into lasting conflict with the regional power. Looking forward to it.

[WilliamLP]

I'm not so sure about the value of providing others with missionaries. First I don't believe that I've witnessed players spread a religion in any meaningful way that wasn't their own. It might happen, but I haven't actively observed it (players probably wouldn't report how they're spending hammer to give gold to their opponent) .

I've not only actively observed it (twice at once), but it's arguably a main reason I'm competitive in another game. Greens but still... Everyone is going to want a religion eventually and there aren't many to go around, and some may prefer one that is controlled by a player who isn't one of the leaders.

[MindyMcCready]

I'm not so sure about the value of providing others with missionaries. First I don't believe that I've witnessed players spread a religion in any meaningful way that wasn't their own. It might happen, but I haven't actively observed it (players probably wouldn't report how they're spending hammer to give gold to their opponent) .

I've not only actively observed it (twice at once), but it's arguably a main reason I'm competitive in another game. Greens but still... Everyone is going to want a religion eventually and there aren't many to go around, and some may prefer one that is controlled by a player who isn't one of the leaders.

Go-go greens! But yeah, there are 18 players here so that's a lot of potential.

[WilliamLP]

Sigh, here we go again:




As usual, I think we're ok, but need to analyze a bunch of tactics which is a pain in the butt. And we'll get set back some more.

I expect a diversion-poke from Retep's 1-movers too because that's the way this guy rolls.

[WilliamLP]

I thought about backing off on the over-extension, but no we're committed now, whether we can hold it or not!




Don Giovanni, which has been called the greatest opera by some pretty respectable people, was written by Mozart. It is about Don Juan and his murders and seductions, and eventually he gets literally dragged into hell for his transgressions, defiant to the end. (This famous scene is shown in the movie "Amadeus".)

Note Ichabod's ruins and how we're making an aggressive land grab past his former aggressive land grab.

By planting this city, I think we're committed to playing total war for a while with a completely crashed econ, and have to assume Ichabod is going to make a big attack. The rare pieces of good news are that catapults are useful practically forever, we're near the world leader in hammers, and we have a lot of land.




I made a few whips and compromises. Barbiere whips away a very nice cottage and works the plains hill to finish a catapult the turn after this one. Traviata 2-whips a catapult. Walkure also gets a whip. Both Boheme and Don G will work on walls, at the expense of terraces for now.

I have to assume all of Reteps HAs can be promoted. Depending on where he moves next I'll have to do a lot of simming to figure out if it makes sense to attack out immediately to reduce his stack (and if we can afford to) or wait.

Our current forces are shown. 4 axes are in Manon right now, getting ready for potential eastern defense.

[Gavagai]

Wow, walls first build! Cool!

[WilliamLP]

Wow, walls first build! Cool!

Yeah, it's but I can't really shake the feeling that Ichabod is going to come at this with what he thinks is decisive force.

[MindyMcCready]

Whao, guy,....tactical error,....one axe in Barbiere! Can't he 1 move that city with worker assist?

And do you know if he's got city visibility or not? We can't take that kind of a chance. Even an unpromoted chariot against a C1 axe with 3T of fortify still has 50-50.