RBP3 [SPOILERS] National Pastime (Rapoleon_Hi of the Aztecs)

[BobRoberts]

Shame about the scout - sorry to hear of his tragic demise!

Congrats on a religion though! That's got to be nice!

[TheMeInTeam]

I can get in the game. We are now at war with everyone we met.

Or not .

Not much input right now as things are rather un-exciting for the moment in terms of in-game activity.

[Ruff_Hi]

Our map knowledge. It'll be a while before we can add to it

[Ruff_Hi]

oh shit - and so the diplo goes from fairly straight forward to a little bit harder ...

Ruff,

Given the wounded lion I saw on the tile where your scout was, I assume the battle did not go as planned. Given your terrain advantage, that was a very bad piece of luck. My condolences on your loss.

It is unfortunate that India is so close to me, as I was hoping to avoid Regoarrarr this game. Given how treacherous Regoarrarr proved in RBP#1 and his penchant for organizing tech alliances and dogpiles, I am going to have to adapt my strategy accordingly. What is your position on India? Is your preference to ally, invade or remain neutral towards them?

Given that India is between us, my preference is to make a very strong alliance with you. A mutual defense pact if India attacks either of us and a tech trade agreement between us to prevent Rego's embargoes are my immediate objectives. Would you be interested in such agreements? I would be willing to consider more aggressive proposals if that was your preference but my initial priorities are defensive in nature.

How far away from my borders is India? Are they NE, SE or directly east of me? Have you met any other civs yet? I will proactively provide similar information on any civ that I meet to you. So far I have met none.

Exploit

Exploit,

I am in the process of such a discussion with India. I had missed the bad blood between you are Regoarrarr from RBP#1. Is this something that you can overlook / forget for RBP#3 or will it haunt your dreams. India is a 4 man team and includes Sooooo (my arch enemy from pbem#1). My approach on these things is to think in terms of India and Greece (our pbem1 civs) instead of Ruff and Sooooo. I've said this publically in RBPB#2 so I am hoping that Sooooo is thinking in a similar way - I have sounded out other people in the Indian team and received information that this is the situation.

Was Rego on a single player team in RBPB1? If so, I think the addition of darrell, sunrise and Sooooo will mitigate him some what. That said, Darrell appears to be sticking up some similar arrangements in pbem2.

Ideally - I want to find good strong partners that I can keep game long. It makes the diplo in these games easier and the game itself flow better.

What do you want me to do re India? I cannot promise you anything yet but I will not play you off against them, nor them off against you. I haven't shared with India that you are next door.

Ruff

but I will not play you off against them, nor them off against you (too much )

[Ruff_Hi]

from India

Hi Ruff,

Thank you for the note about your not 2 hammer city tile. We had previously sacked our C&D Department but are pleased to report that the person in charge of sacking them has, in turn, been sacked.

And we didn't call you a liar, we specifically called you NOT a liar

Congrats on landing Buddhism - we hope that we can get some spread our way, either automatically or through a missionary. We think that it would be very trippin'! It's weird, even though as human players there is no real "We care for our brothers and sisters of the faith" bonus, often times it does seem to play out that way....

The first assignment of our new and improved C&D Department has been to check our EP spending, and we've determined that we will soon be able to see your demographics. We'd like to suggest we stop EP spending against one another as soon as we can both see each others' info. Does that sound ok?

We also find the idea of specializing around gold or beaker production to make sense, and would certainly be interested in working with you in such a manner. As you may know, regoarrarr and sunrise have such a relationship in RBP1.

One final fun question - have you had a forest grow within your cap's fat cross recently?

-DJCivilization

Greetings India,

Oh come on - of course you called me a liar. You comment was identical to a robo call that says "Would you vote for so-and-so if they were a sheep loving pillow biter?" Sure, it doesn't say that so-and-so is those things, but the intent is there. Not that I am worried either way ... because I did lie to you a little

I heard that you were interested in pursuing a long term alliance. So am I. I know full well the benefits of such an alliance and I believe that some of your team does too. You can also see the downside of not forming any form alliance in other pitboss games. As such, I am looking for a very long term, 100% reliable, sharing alliance - full tech sharing, resource trading and sharing, information combining, etc. Ideally, I would like to have 4 civs total in this alliance (see map musings below) and form corners of a square. That way, each of us could expand outwards without cramping the others in the alliance.

Is there anyone in this game that you would prefer to work with? Is there anyone in this game that you will not work with at all, no way? I know that some of you have run into other players in other games (pbem1, pbem2, pitboss1, pitboss2) - will these affect your dealings with the players in this game? This is not just ideal curiosity on my part. If we really do want to form a long term, strong alliance, ideally with 2 or 3 others, then we need to share these up front.

From my point of view, I have compartmentalized pbem1 by saying that it is India that hates Greece and Greece that hates India. I did post ages ago that this will only have a hold over to another game if I am playing India and Sooooo is playing Greece. I didn't think that 3 of the 4 of us (Ruff, Sooooo, India, Greece) would be involved again so quickly .

Note that I have scouted further West and found 1 other civ and that I am in discussion with that civ too. I cannot share details yet as I will not play you off against that civ or that civ off against you. Unfortunately, my scout died at 25% odds and so any further map information / civ contact will have to wait.

Our capitals are 12 tiles apart. As you know, your 21 land tiles owns 0.52% of the available land tiles. Based on that, the most likely number of land tiles is 4038. From the part of the map I can see, I estimate that there is less than 2% water tiles, thus there would be approximately 4120 tiles in total. I actually think that the 2% water is high. If it is 1% then there would be 4079 - lets call it 4100 tiles at the moment. With 17 teams, that means that each team would get 241 each of a square with sides 15.5 tiles - so feel free to write a letter to the map maker complaining about the 12 tile gap!

I am assuming that the map wraps NS and EW and that Sullla has placed the teams thus ...

OOOOOO
.OOOOO
OOOOOO

or

.OOOO
.OOOO
OOOOO
.OOOO

I am leaning towards the bottom set-up as it would be fairer to each team - ie given that you don't want to start next to Rome. Given that our capitals are 12 tiles away (less than average) then I think we are in a row of 5.

Now, 4100 tiles means a map grid dimension of something like:

20 x 12 (3840) - too small
20 x 13 (4160) - a little too big
16 x 16 (4096) - will you look at that!

The map sizes are in the map scripts. For example, Lakes is WorldSizeTypes.WORLDSIZE_HUGE: (21,13)) which is a little big. Other non water maps are typically 1.6x wider than they are higher. However, don't think that Sullla doesn't know how to edit mapscripts. Remember, Speaker was just playing with the TeamBattle ground script to make it greener. Maybe this is an edited script with grid (each grid is 4x4 tiles) of size 16 x 16.

Regards

Ruff


--
Rapoleon_Hi
Ruler of the Aztecs
Light of the World
Supreme Arbiter

"I haven't met a person that I cannot sacrifice."

[Ruff_Hi]

I also shared my map musings with Exploit

Exploit,

Here is my current thinking regarding the map ...

As you know, your 21 land tiles owns 0.52% of the available land tiles. Based on that, the most likely number of land tiles is 4038. From the part of the map I can see, I estimate that there is less than 2% water tiles, thus there would be approximately 4120 tiles in total. I actually think that the 2% water is high. If it is 1% then there would be 4079 - lets call it 4100 tiles at the moment. With 17 teams, that means that each team would get 241 each or a square with sides 15.5 tiles.

I am assuming that the map wraps NS and EW and that Sullla has placed the teams thus ...

OOOOOO
.OOOOO
OOOOOO

or

.OOOO
.OOOO
OOOOO
.OOOO

I am leaning towards the bottom set-up as it would be fairer to each team - ie given that you don't want to start next to Rome. Given that I have already met 2 civs, I think we are in a row of 5.

Now, 4100 tiles means a map grid dimension of something like:

20 x 12 (3840) - too small
20 x 13 (4160) - a little too big
16 x 16 (4096) - will you look at that!

The map sizes are in the map scripts. For example, Lakes is WorldSizeTypes.WORLDSIZE_HUGE: (21,13)) which is a little big. Other non water maps are typically 1.6x wider than they are higher. However, don't think that Sullla doesn't know how to edit mapscripts. Remember, Speaker was just playing with the TeamBattle ground script to make it greener. Maybe this is an edited script with grid (each grid is 4x4 tiles) of size 16 x 16.

--
Rapoleon_Hi
Ruler of the Aztecs
Light of the World
Supreme Arbiter

"I haven't met a person that I cannot sacrifice."

[Ruff_Hi]

chat with exploit. Sorry lurkers - you will not see a thread here from him. You will also not see long chats with exploit because I am sure he is a 1 finger typer - sooo slow

• me: exploit - you online?
  
• Exploit: yes
  
• me: got time to chat?
  
• Exploit: I was just replying to your email
  sure
  
• me: how comeyou haven't posted a spoiler thread at RB?
  some lurkers are asking
  
• Exploit: I wasn't planning on posting one this time.
  
• me: you ok with me posting our correspondance?
  
• Exploit: Absolutely, I know lurkers tend to enjoy the diplomacy aspect of the game.
  
• me: they will just have to learn about Exploit through other nations - I am fine with that
  I will tell the lurkers
  so - re India
  I haven't said that the other civ is you
  what do you want me to do?
  
• Exploit: it's ok to mention me to India.
  
• me: I also have history with a team member on India and I have asked them flat out how they plan to play that history
  
• Exploit: we will likely meet soon enough anyway
  
• me: ok
  
• Exploit: I am not bent on war with India, I just do not trust them.
  
• me: did rego break a NAP or a long term agreement?
  because I desire a very very long term alliance (250 or 300 turns)
  and any input you can give will be useful
  
• Exploit: In RBP1, Rego was the instigator of breaking up alliances twice and forming new alliances.
  
• me: ouch
  
• Exploit: I am ok with that however from my perspective his last maneuver was to organize a global alliance against me. Which he was able to do because he was already the head of the most powerful alliance with a significant military and tech advantage. My allies were bribed/coerced into joining the fight against me.
  That is the scenario which I am trying to prevent being repeated.
  
• me: so stiching him up in a long term alliance would do that?
  or it wouldn't be worth the paper it is written on?
  or something different?
  sound to me like you need better allies
  
• Exploit: rego never actually betrayed me or my predecessors as our civs were on opposing sides from the beginning. He betrayed other civs and I am not certain as to how much he stuck to the letter of their agreements when he left them.
  I agree with you that it was my allies who were my downfall.
  
• me: the other option is that we could just kill India and split their land
  but Sunrise will be totally pissed if that happens to him again
  
• Exploit: We could do that but that is not my first choice. My goal is to simply ensure that I am not shut out of tech trades with anyone and to prevent a large number of civs militarily allying against me.
  
• me: mine too
  
• Exploit: I like to play the game sort of like the solo civ game, instead of the large tech alliances, but it is difficult to do with so many people immediately forming tech alliances.
  
• me: let me get an answer back from India about how they will play their history and who they want to and don't want to allie with
  reply to my email - and I will keep you informed
  
• Exploit: ok thanks. by the way. I could be convinced of a 200-300 turn alliance.
  
• me: lol
  

[Ruff_Hi]

reply from exploit ... and here you see a real strength of a team with limited numbers ... the speed of communication is much better - no production of a draft, wait until team mates see it, comment, rehash, etc, etc

Ruff,

I play each game on its own merit however I do take into consideration players' actions in previous games in evaluating the risk of trusting them. I will be wary of treachery from India but I am willing to trade with them and even potentially enter into alliances with them.

Here is my initial proposal to you. (Feel free to make counter offers or improve upon it if you like):

We make a mutual defense pact and trade alliance between us that will last until Turn 250. After which we can renew it depending upon the situation. I would be willing to make it a 3-way defense pact to include India in the same deal if that is your preference. My caveats are:

a) there are to be no trade embargo obligations towards outside parties as part of this deal
b) members of this defense pact are not obligated to give their tech to other members for free (trading tech to other members is encouraged but reasonable compensation in the form of tech, gold, units or other favours is expected)
c) if a member declares war (as opposed to being declared upon) then other members of the pact are not obligated to declare war on the outside party (i.e. a normal mutual defense pact)

In return for some of the info that you have given me, I will share my theory about the map. Based upon the fact that 21 tiles of land = 0.52% of the total land, I believe that the map is Terra since that is the only script for a huge map with Low Sea level that seems to give that type of percentage.

Regards,
Exploit

[novice]

I agree, diplo is easier for single players. One advantage of being a team though is that you can procrastinate, lie, etc. and blame interteam communication.

Have you been lurking RBPB1 after you stopped playing that game?

[Ruff_Hi]

Finally have a worker - yay. Only problem is he cannot do much. It is 8 turns to mining and another 12 to bronze working. He is currently farming the corn. After that I will have him mine some of my plains hills ... mainly because he can.

City is size 2, working the sheep (2f1h1c) and a forest plains hill (3h) while building a warrior (3). These games seem to take soooo long that I lose focus in the early part ... and the middle part ... and the late part too .

Is setting up your city to zero growth for 5 turns totally stupid? I'll be able to build 2 warriors and send them out into the world ... also, my worker will finish the corn in 5 turns and I'll swap back to working that tile when it comes on-line.