[SPOILERS] Oxy and suttree save the day, again!

[Oxyphenbutazone]

This start has the potential to be amazing!

Ok, so here's what I have so far

-Research Path is Animal Husbandry-Mining-Bronze Working-The Wheel-Pottery

-Builds in capital Worker-Work Boat-Settler-Warrior-Warrior-Worker(Whipped)-Settler-Worker

-Second Settler completed eot 32, moves during slavery revolt turn 33 and settles turn 34. Obviously this is dependent on our surrondings, but 3S of the capital is a great second city sharing the sheep, fish and 2 potential cottages

-Builds in second city- Warrior-Worker

-The capital grows to size 5 and then double whips a worker with huge overflow. The whipped worker will road to the third city site, while the overflow completes another settler

-Third Settler completed eot43

-The only real knock on this start is that we don't get a cottage down until turn 48, I think it's worth it

Situation turn 44



-Pacal of Native America looks to be the perfect combination , Kurumi, HBHR what are your thoughts?

[suttree]

With the plains hill forest, did you consider WB first?

[Oxyphenbutazone]

I did, but no matter how hard I tried it still delayed the first worker by 6 turns, the first settler by 4 turns and didn't even generate more commerce than worker first, which is of course the usual advantage of work boat first. The only real advantage is that it gets a warrior done before settler.

This isn't set in stone as micro for the actual game, this is just more of a way to gauge what starting techs are best for this start.

[suttree]

T0 4h/t
T8 6fh/t - WB - work fish
T18 5f/t - Worker
T23 10fh/t - grow - work fish/wheat
T33 Settler

(Sorry for formatting - on my phone)

Looks like 3 worker turns for a bunch of commerce to me? Same eta on settler.

[Oxyphenbutazone]

Again, I came up with this micro in about half an hour, so I doubt it's completely optimal. It seems like we have the same settler eta's, but one involves a 10 turn settler build while keeping the capital at size 2, while mine involves a 7 turn settler build at size 4. That would delay the third settler and second worker for at least 5 turns a piece. You're also ignoring the sheep which generates 3 cpt. Maybe I'm misunderstanding because of the formatting?

The WB first starts I ran conformed with the grow to size 5->whip worker->overflow into settler plan I had. Maybe there's a better way to go with WB first, but I don't think it really beats out worker first, you're wasting the EXP bonus by going WB first and working the fish to produce a worker.

EDIT: Ran a further optimized WB first start(work the PHF for 7 turns, work the GLF for 1 turn, work the fish for 4 turns to size 2 and then the fish and plains hill for 7 fhpt) The sheep is delayed being hooked up by eleven turns leading to a loss of 33 commerce while the fish is hooked up 13 turns earlier leading to a gain of 39 commerce, so the commerce gain is literally 6, but the settler is delayed by 2 turns. If you consider that the city immediately produces 7 food, 1 production and 4 commerce by picking up the sheep tile, you're trading in 6 commerce for 6 worker turns, 14 food, 2 production and... 8 commerce. It's more complicated than that obviously, but it seems like worker first is better. Barbs don't enter you territory until 2n+1 cities have been settled(where n is the number of players in the game) and the settler will never spend a turn in the wilderness so getting the warrior out first doesn't really factor into the decision.

[suttree]

Again, I came up with this micro in about half an hour, so I doubt it's completely optimal. It seems like we have the same settler eta's, but one involves a 10 turn settler build while keeping the capital at size 2, while mine involves a 7 turn settler build at size 4. That would delay the third settler and second worker for at least 5 turns a piece. You're also ignoring the sheep which generates 3 cpt. Maybe I'm misunderstanding because of the formatting?

The WB first starts I ran conformed with the grow to size 5->whip worker->overflow into settler plan I had. Maybe there's a better way to go with WB first, but I don't think it really beats out worker first, you're wasting the EXP bonus by going WB first and working the fish to produce a worker.

Sorry - didn't see you are Pacal - was assuming 15t worker build. Nice start!

[suttree]

Back at an actual computer:

Code:

t00,1   0f/t  5h/t  0f   0h(WORKER=60)    WORK PLAINS HILL
t12,1   2f/t  2h/t  0f   0h(WB=30)        WORKER FINISHED, WORK GRASS FOREST
t16,1   5f/t  2h/t  8f   8h               WHEAT FARMED,WORK WHEAT
t19,2   5f/t  3h/t  1f   14h              GROW, WORK WHEAT/GRASS FOREST
t21,2   8f/t  2h/t  11f  20h              SHEEP PASTURED,WORK WHEAT/SHEEP
t23,3   8f/t  2h/t  3f   24h              GROW, WORK WHEAT/SHEEP/RAW FISH
t26,4   10f/t 5h/t  1f   0h(SETTLER)      GROW, WB, GH MINED, WORK WHEAT/SHEEP/FISH/GHMINE
t33,4   SETTLER

I think this is what you have in mind, yes? That is a beautiful start! Plenty of production, commerce, everything! With a cheap granary, you can work Fish/Wheat/Mine growing on to mine and lake for a perfect 6->3 whip cycle with no additional worker labour. So fast!

[Oxyphenbutazone]

That was the general idea, yes

And yeah, this start is pretty awesome. The capital's long term potential isn't quite as dazzling with just 2 riverside tiles, but a palace move isn't terribly difficult to execute.

[suttree]

All you need is one happy, and you can have nothing but a chain of 6->3 cities working Fin cottages.... blargh.... so broken

[Oxyphenbutazone]

Sounds like you want to join the Eagles/Condor gang? It would be nice to have your considerable talents on my side for once