Intersite Game - Turn Discussion Thread

[Nicolae Carpathia]

From an economic perspective, I'd rather settle the pigs-copper than the hypothetical fish-horses site. The former has better yields on tiles, and has a ton of forests to chop.

We're not at the aggressive defence nor recon-in-force stage yet.

[Sullla]

My initial gut instinct was that settling one north of the copper had too much city overlap. But you know... the more I looked at the situation, the more I was persuaded that it was a very strong location. I do not support settling on the copper at all; that's an incredibly good tile, and even more so when paired with the pigs resource. The pigs are 6/0 and the copper is 1/5 (I think?) That's a combined 10 foodhammers from a pair of tiles, absolutely outstanding in the early game. We also claim three more useful tiles for Mansa's Muse without having to build an obelisk, we can work cottages for both of our first two cities to grow them faster, and there are *TONS* of forests to chop there. Civ is such a snowball game that it's just not practical to care about what happens to these cities after size 17 or whatever. Our first two cities are both commerce-heavy and production weak. This spot solves our biggest problem and will be an awesome city in its own right. (I think could be an excellent candidate for Heroic Epic: farm everything and run all production/no commerce. Or we could use the pigs to produce an early Prophet/Scientist. Many options here.) I don't think we're going to find a better option.

kjn, I can't really support recalling our exploring warrior to go check out a location where horses might appear. I think we want to finish mapping out the copper/pigs area for the moment. We definitely do want to see what else is around the fish in the near future, just not right now.

[Gold Ergo Sum]

Fully support making the best production city possible. Overlap seems fine to me. I like the idea of copper, pigs, two grass mines, and pumping MPs or worker/settlers.

I know we want MP warriors, but how soon will we have barb archers showing up?

[kjn]

I'm fairly sure that we'll see the horses within the area we have explored, but if we don't see horses on T43, then we settle by the copper and call it a day.

However, given the choice of claiming horses first or copper first (and right now ignoring relative city quality), I think most here had agreed on that horses were the more important resource:

• Excellent scouts and settler escorts
  
• Good and mobile barb defenders
  
• Allows us to build warriors for MP duties under HR

Since barbs will start to become more aggressive as soon as we settle our third city, we will need better units as soon as possible. Ie, we must connect the copper, if we settle that option, and thus block construction of warriors.

What I'm against is locking us into a game plan on T40 about the next twenty turns when we will have critical new information on T43.

Now, city quality matters too, but lets make a really informed decision on T43 and keep our options open until then.

[kjn]

I know we want MP warriors, but how soon will we have barb archers showing up?

I expect we will see barb axes before barb archers. Barbs gets a hefty research bonus for every team that knows a tech, but other than that little but the bonus beaker.

[kalin]

I think we should set up a vote for the 3rd city location once all the information is available.

Can someone remind me what's the drawback with 1E of the copper? 1N of the copper doesn't even share a food to grow the city sooner. I really quite like the idea of culture over that peak (or peaks) both for other civs and barbs.

Also, I haven't heard any comment on a wonder with all those forests around pigs/copper... We are heading to priesthood, so is the Oracle worth a shot? Even Stonehenge would be quite nice to us.

Kalin

[mostly_harmless]

Seeing how there is no additional support for the settling on the copper tile, I make one last post on this and leave it be.

The pigs are 6/0 and the copper is 1/5 (I think?) That's a combined 10 foodhammers from a pair of tiles, absolutely outstanding in the early game.

I believe the food goes away (-1) when a mine is in place. Also settling on the copper makes it a 2/2/1 tile AND leaves a grassland open for cottaging. it also pulls in additional hills south for production.

We also claim three more useful tiles for Mansa's Muse without having to build an obelisk, we can work cottages for both of our first two cities to grow them faster ...

This would happen as well when settling on the copper as the borders will adjust itself and not leave that 3 tile non-cultural intrusion there. Not sure what the mechanism is there. Maybe tiles that have 7 neighbouring culture tiles automatically slip into your borders.
So in that case settling on the copper actually let us claim additional tiles without a monument.

Civ is such a snowball game that it's just not practical to care about what happens to these cities after size 17 or whatever.

It's not size 17 but rather size 11 in this case!

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Ok, in other in news WPC settled their 2nd city just now, bringing the overall city count to 19, i.e. more aggressive barbs from now on!:war4:

mh

[kalin]

I believe the food goes away (-1) when a mine is in place. Also settling on the copper makes it a 2/2/1 tile AND leaves a grassland open for cottaging. it also pulls in additional hills south for production.

No, plains copper has 1/5 yield.

This would happen as well when settling on the copper as the borders will adjust itself and not leave that 3 tile non-cultural intrusion there. Not sure what the mechanism is there. Maybe tiles that have 7 neighbouring culture tiles automatically slip into your borders.
So in that case settling on the copper actually let us claim additional tiles without a monument.

I am pretty sure that this is not true. We won't claim those tiles without expansion.

Kalin

[kjn]

I think we should set up a vote for the 3rd city location once all the information is available.

Agreed.

Can someone remind me what's the drawback with 1E of the copper? 1N of the copper doesn't even share a food to grow the city sooner. I really quite like the idea of culture over that peak (or peaks) both for other civs and barbs.

The main drawback to me for 1E of copper is that it requires a bigger logistical effort to settle - one more turn in the open, further away from our cities, ie more escorts needed. It also loses some riverside tiles, but those can be worked by another city to our south, so no big deal.

If we go horse before copper, that objections fall by the wayside, but if we want to go for copper third, faster means better units quicker and safer.

Also, I haven't heard any comment on a wonder with all those forests around pigs/copper... We are heading to priesthood, so is the Oracle worth a shot? Even Stonehenge would be quite nice to us.

Given our current tech pace, no religions falling yet, and no IND leader in the game I think we can even slow-build the Oracle, perhaps with some whip overflow.

[mostly_harmless]

No, plains copper has 1/5 yield.

I am pretty sure that this is not true. We won't claim those tiles without expansion.

Kalin

Ok. Which weakens my point considerably.

mh