We're not turning anyone away, so you're most certainly welcome to join our team. Personally, I think you should probably avoid any ISDG discussion as I could see that unraveling rather easily - just my opinion though so don't take it as gospel. At minimum, it's probably best to wait awhile as some of the strong disagreements are pretty fresh so I find it likely that none of the sides are very open-minded right now.
T-hawk Wrote:For some of the typical ban list, it's because they go so far away from the core of Civilization gaming. Corporations and spies in particular are the offenders there. In Civilization, you're supposed to be gradually growing and improving the land to meticulously collect tile yields... and then all of a sudden comes this magical corporation mechanic that deluges each city with 10 or 20 food. Or you're supposed to be strategically planning your governmental civics choices... and along comes a spy to whack all your careful setup. Or you plan a war only to have the Apostolic Palace banhammer it.
You're not really playing Civilization, you're playing subsystems that were designed to sell the BTS expansion by sticking out as sharp edges. Being forced down these paths isn't fun. And you ARE forced if you want to be competitive. If you don't use corps and spies, you'll lose to somebody else who does.
All our usual bans are geared towards keeping the game fun and entertaining. Blockades fall into that category. Blockades mean that developing to use water tiles is very risky, because a single ship can come along and deny huge amounts of food and commerce. You can build a navy to defend, but once again you're getting forced down the path of dealing with particular subsystems at the expense of the overall Civilization gameplay.
Other bans are to avoid a "one right choice" scenario. Nukes mean that you must get there first or lose to somebody who does, slicing off huge chunks of the later tech tree as unviable options. Elephants are banned not just because ivory might be unevenly distributed (the mapmaker could give it to everybody), but because you must run to Construction or lose to somebody who does. The power of Financial as a civilization trait means you must have it or lose to somebody who does, making other traits unviable. These bans are more arguable, that Civilization 4 is meant to stress these areas and isn't meant to be perfectly balanced. But I and most players would agree that the game is more fun when more options are made available by cutting the tall poppies.
To add to this post - Civilization was designed to primarily be a single-player game. The vast majority of the incredibly large number of people who bought the game play only SP Civ. This means that the vast majority of design decisions were made with AIs in mind. The AI isn't designed to play like a human, it's designed to play like opposition. So that's why stuff like the in-game diplo victory is obviously ridiculous for MP. I think a lot of the resolutions in the Apostolic Palace just as an example have the same problem. When you play SP against AIs, they don't collude together on that stuff, they just make their vote in a vacuum based on whatever parameters the programmers set when they coded the game. It's drastically different from humans who make decisions based on a far more complex set of reasons, and therefore the voting system for, say, An AP resolution that forces war is FAR too easy for a human to leverage than it is for an AI. The mechanic's power is not properly adjusted for MP because it was created with SP in mind.
Krill Wrote:Anyway, the whole point of choosing where to pick is dependent on knowing what leader/civ you are likely to be able to pick up and what you want, so it should make decisions more straightforward than it appears at first sight.
Exactly. Hence
Krill Wrote:It took you over four hours to agree you wanted first pick?
btw, do you guys want us to announce our pick when we know it, or wait for the entire snake pick order to be ready?
novice Wrote:btw, do you guys want us to announce our pick when we know it, or wait for the entire snake pick order to be ready?
Wait for the full snake pick probably, since if someone knows what you would already be picking (and would no longer be a viable option for them to pick), it my alter which position they may have wanted in the snake pick. Probably not....but still a good idea to wait for the snake pick order to be set. And then someone from your team can immediately post what your first pick is.
I would advise that we finish this pick before starting the next (real) one. Gillette are ready to go as soon as it's our turn. That's not me hurrying you though, take your time.
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
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