[SPOILERS] A threesome becomes a twosome

[plako]

DaveV I agree concerning the starting positions.

Ilians should probably settle 1SW - Claiming riverside position and replacing some non riverside tiles with riverside ones and possibly even founding some food.

Calendar is probably 1st tech.

[Jkaen]

Worth moving the starting warrior for balseraphs 1SE to check if its worth settling on that riverside hill instead?

[DaveV]

After sleeping on it, I don't think it's a good idea for the Illians to build a temple of the hand on any of those starts. A few extra desert food is pretty much offset by loss of food from the floodplains, and losing the river commerce would be catastrophic. Probably the only place where temple of the hand makes sense is on really bad terrain (desert, tundra, ice, maybe jungle) without many river tiles.

plako and Jkaen probably right in thinking we should move toward the river. NE for #2 and SE for #3? And now I'm wavering on whether #1 or #2 is better for Luchuirp.

Another random thought: I think the Illians and Balseraphs should gift their first expansion cities to the Luchuirp, to allow an early Gifts of Nantosuelta.

[plako]

2 hammer plant is valuable so unless scouting units reveal something worthwhile I would settle all but Ilians in place. I agree temple of hand doesn't make much sense for these starts. Gifting 1st cities is good idea and to further leverage this Lurchups could try to build the golden age wonder with marble. Both Masonry and Philosophy are our early beeline targets.

[Jkaen]

I agree SIP for 2. I probably agree with 3, but it depends on whats in the fog

[plako]

Some of these starts will have significant health problems so despite of losing 2 hammer plant moving to river had to be considered. We should move our scouting units before making final decisions.

[DaveV]

Yes, health is what I had in mind when suggesting moving to the river. Long term, +2 health beats +1 hammer, since food=hammers when building settlers or (non-Luchuirp) workers, and when running Conquest. I expect Construction to be a priority tech for us, so Conquest should be available very early.

It doesn't look as though we have a huge number of health resources, and we'll have to split everything three ways. Fresh water bonus could be significant.

[Kyan]

Hmm, ok.

Sites 1 and 3 could go either way round. I'd probably lean towards Illians as 1 and Balseraphs as 3. Site 1 should move 1SW. Site 3 should SIP.

Site 2 is definitely Luchuirp. They need the hammers the most. I really like the site 1SE but losing the extra hammer is going to upset me tremendously. It gains health, it gets rid of a useless sheep tile and gains another riverside wins (which we can immediately improve as we have crafting...). I'm still not 100% sure on this so would appreciate your thoughts.

plako: I would prefer to play Illians than Luchuirp simply because i'm already playing them currently. However, I can do it again if you'd really rather not. They're gonna be time consuming to play this game as mud golem micro could make or break us.

[plako]

Site 2 is definitely Luchuirp. They need the hammers the most. I really like the site 1SE but losing the extra hammer is going to upset me tremendously. It gains health, it gets rid of a useless sheep tile and gains another riverside wins (which we can immediately improve as we have crafting...). I'm still not 100% sure on this so would appreciate your thoughts.

Settling on sheep is definately ok for Site 2 and I actually thought about it too. Being on river has also the advantage that the city can't be pillaged out from the trade route.

plako: I would prefer to play Illians than Luchuirp simply because i'm already playing them currently. However, I can do it again if you'd really rather not. They're gonna be time consuming to play this game as mud golem micro could make or break us.

I was afraid of this . I'm really not a fan of spreadseheets and detailed worker plans. I much rather use my energy elsewhere. However with common sense and short term plans I've done quite alright and if that is good enough for you, I'll be happy to take Lurchuips.

[DaveV]

Regarding start 3: moving SE changes from -1 health to +1. Gives up:

1 floodplain
2 riverside grassland
1 riverside grassland (forested)
1 riverside plains (forested)
1 plains
1 grassland (forested)

In exchange for (? indicates best guess on fogged tile):

3 (?) riverside grassland
2 riverside plains
1 riverside sugar
1 riverside grassland hill (?)

Either way, this city is a pretty good settler pump, and can be a good unit pump when running conquest. Settling in place, the sugar tile will be inside Creative borders after 13 turns, so probably about the time we'll be in position to put a plantation on it.

Another thing to consider is the position of the starts relative to one another, and not messing up potential dotmaps. Presumably we won't know that until the game actually starts.