This is a Spoiler thread - Dreylin, PB28

[The Black Sword]

Can you post an overview shot with demos?

[Dreylin]

Sure thing; anything else you'd like to see?

[The Black Sword]

I might have follow up questions.

[Dreylin]

Grabbed all the screenshots, but I'm heading out tonight and won't have time to post and discuss them all until tomorrow. In the meantime, here's the news for the turn:

[Dreylin]

Preface:

Before the overview I'd like to return to this:

Galley sailed this turn and I'll whip the Settler next. I'll start a Settler after the 1t WB from Serpentinite, and probably another in the Capital in 2t after it grows to Size7. Granite will regrow after the Settler Whip and then probably make another. Breccia is churning Workers until it has a few more improved tiles to grow onto, while Arkose is still working on that overflow chain for the Hanging Gardens. Outer ring cities are now working improved tiles and getting ready to chop/whip Granaries.

As soon as I had posted this I started thinking about the costs involved and the state of my finances, so you'll see as the review goes through that I've altered the builds listed here.

[Dreylin]

As requested by TBS, I present:

The Great t100 t83 overview of the Stratigraphic Column

Haven't done one of these for a while, so not really sure where to start. I guess I'll go with the demos:


Not particularly impressive, I know. I have been whipping pretty hard, but the main effect has probably been my leap from 5 to 8 cities without really having the infrastructure / Worker support in place. In hindsight, I could have been more conservative in pushing out (especially to the East), but having secured my borders as I want them, I can focus on defense and backfill rather than rushing outwards.

Before we get to the overview, here's the Domestics:


Things to note here:

• Low Culture output: 2Monuments, 2Barracks and a single Library
  
• Low pop in 2nd Ring cities due to lack of quality tiles to work and frequent whipping
  
• Low Commerce levels: Gneiss is the only city worth a Library; second ring are generally inflated by working cottages for Gneiss.
  

Next post we'll look at the terrain, cities and dotmap.

[Dreylin]

Part 2: Terrain, Cities and Dotmap.

Starting with the Whosit border:


Overall, I'm pretty happy with how this border has shaken out; I had half an idea to grab for the spot 1SE of Hope, but that probably would have been a bridge too far so I wasn't upset when he grabbed the spot. I did push out Greywacke in a bit of a rush, but I wanted to ensure the space behind it was available as I wanted. The one niggle I have with Whosit's play here is that he very aggressively pushed both a Barracks and Monument into his city in order to contest the Sheep tile - he literally has 1point more Culture here than I do.

Breccia:
Since passing the Pigs to Arkose, Breccia has been mostly stagnated at Size4 working the Sheep, Silver, a Cottage for Gneiss and a PH mine. It had the first Barracks so was responsible for building quite a few troops, but now is mostly building Workers with 8/9hpt base. Arkose has it's own food online now though, so it can regain the Pigs and grow a few sizes as more tiles come online. Although it was originally founded for the Silver, it has limited long-term potential and will likely end up as a hammer-focused Filler.

Arkose:
Lynchpin of the front and long-term hammer powerhouse, Arkose is currently engaged with preparations for the Hanging Gardens. Current cascade consists of Scout 14/15, Axe 30/35 and working on the Aqueduct now. Still debating whether to add a Settler after that or just go straight for the beast; my current leaning is the latter, as getting a bunch of Failgold from it would have good value as well. HG here gets me the additional culture to push back at Whosit, while overall I have the pop to make it worthwhile and the EXP bonus to the aqueduct to ameliorate the up-front cost. Spawning an Engineer for a later MoM grab would not be bad too...

Greywacke:
Border plant; will be a military pump later, but right now it's just trying to secure it's own neighbourhood. As the sign indicates I'm chopping into the Barracks here rather than the Granary; with just a 3f Deer first ring the growth is slow enough that I'm not going to be whipping early, so popping the borders for the Pigs & Sheep is more important. The chop finished next turn, the Barracks will overflow into the Granary and then I'll whip that.

Other sites:
Main one of note in this area is the spot labeled "Commerce City", which I think is the best non-capital site available on the starting landmass for commerce: Silver, Spices, 3 riverside cottages and some Coast - I want to get this down fairly soon to start growing the cottages. That leaves a late filler on the tip of the peninsula for the Clams.

Now to the Grimace Border:


With Grimace now having settled the as-yet unseen city, this border is set and there' not even going to be any culture wars here - at least until he pushes forward into the middle.

Dolomite & Basalt:
These are pretty sad at the moment and starving for Worker attention, but that will change soon. In the meantime, the build queues are Granary then Barracks to pop borders. Dolomite will likely be hammer-focused for Military, while Basalt will be more Commerce/Coast-driven.

Other sites:
I keep flip-flopping about the "Central City" site; is it too aggressive / forkable, or is in necessary bridge between Arkose and Dolomite? I think this one will be played by ear as I see how my opponents settling priorities evolve and how my Finances develop. I'll talk about the location 1S of the Copper after the next shot.

The Core:


I know, I have too many Mines here.

Gneiss:
Has recently shed it's final whip anger and maxed out at Size 7. I'll likely keep it there working as many cottages as possible and grow onto the Ivory as soon as it's available. Lots of support from surrounding cities to keep the Cottages growing; will be a pretty decent Bureau capital down the line.

Serpentinite:
City #2 and chief only port, it has just finished the prep for the island city. Significant overflow from the WB was going to go into a Settler, but I decided it's finally time to have an MP unit to give an extra size. I'll probably shuffle the Axe North and bring a spare Warrior down long-term though. Probably a Worker build next to get through the whip anger and then either a Lighthouse or more Naval units for exploration.

Granite:
A bit stuck between screenshots, this city has been more important than that implies. At size4 it has been the most dedicated Settler pump interspersed with Axes for the NE. Now it will have a chance to grow a bit (probably on a Barracks) and then return to Settler/Worker. Forms a triangle with Arkose & Breccia and the Deer, Sheep & Pigs have regularly passed between the tree cities.

Eastern Island:
Per previous plan, this will be settled on t88 as my ninth city; securing 2c trade routes everywhere it will turn an immediate profit, while the Ivory will also be a boost. Planning this for my Moai spot as I can use the Deer, Ivory and Horses to bring it online faster. Build queue will be Granary, Monument, Lighthouse.

The Axe currently healing on the Deer (after killing a Barb Spear) has 5xp and will be ferried across to the (expected) linking island to the South to explore and hopefully gain xp to become heroic.

Eastern dotmap:
Starting with the northerly spot previously mentioned; it took me a long while to decide on this spot as I don't like settling it off the coast, however I think it is needed as a support for the Grimace front and overall will make a good contribution. It can pull the Wheat from Granite to get up and running and then grow onto Sheep and Spices, all the while with the strong Copper tile.

The site 2N of the Horses probably should have been settled a long time ago, but has never made itself the priority - particularly as the Deer is the only food that Gneiss has had a lot of the time. This is one of the few candidates other than the island that might be immediately profitable though, so could be next on the list.

Finally the city site on the peninsula is on filler timing, but can accumulate enough tiles to become a decent Naval contributor.

Southern dotmap:
I've been flip-flopping on 2 pairs of city locations: the "City" & "Filler" spots or the two "Here" locations. My first thought was the City spot 4S of Gneiss which has first-ring Pigs & Wheat, a Fish 2S of the Wheat and can also steal Serpentinite's Crabs. This would be a very strong city site, but only allows the Filler spot so I started to think it might be better to split the food. Hence the two "Here" spots.

Recently though I have been returning to the one mega-city idea; if I put the Moai on the island, the Eastern "Here" becomes filler anyway and the Western is not great. Also, the central city's food surplus would make it a great choice for either a National Epic GP pump, or a Globe Theatre drafting camp. These are down the line some though, so I'm sure I'll be flip-flopping on this again!

I've not mentioned the Western island, which would have been faster to settle, but because it has no food resource would not contribute as fast as the Southern. As for the larger islands, well they will come in time but more Scouting is needed first.

Rounding this post off I have the military situation:


8 Workers for 8 cities as already noted is too few, but in the process of improvement. Otherwise we like our Axes, which so far has been fine since no-one has yet connected Horses (and yes I check on this each turn).

Final post will be Demos, Foreign Relations, and some musings on Technology and the Economy.

[Dreylin]

Part 3: Demos and Foreign Relations

Graphs:

Summary: comparable with my neighbours. Power is more mobile due to fewer Barracks, but conversely fewer promotions.

Foreign Relations:

I feel like a giant, straddling two worlds:


My exploration choice for the scouting Workboat has worked out even better than I expected, securing me a meeting with Fenn. I should meet Adrien/Mardoc in 2-4t depending on their border and coastal presence, and thus complete the second island. I should then be able to follow the linking islands to Island #2 and start to meet the other 3 ... that will be interesting!

Rampant speculation about Whosit & Fenn meeting turns out to have been hot air. I sent Fenn a generic greeting message to make sure he noticed that he'd met me (as if his Warrior would somehow have overlooked that WB), but I didn't send a map trade yet. Waiting to see if he will; I'll accept if he does, and offer myself if he doesn't.

As for my immediate neighbours, well here's their border:


So it looks like Grimace pushed harder towards Whosit, while Whosit pushed harder towards me, leaving me to push both ways and wreck my economy.

Grimace's city is almost certainly on the Wines, as that gives it access to both Fish (just visible at the top) and explains the borders, which couldn't really be 3rd ring yet. With access to the Sheep, Pacha Mama is not as dreadful as his previous (Peace on Earth still hasn't got access to a food resource, though it did finish its Ikhanda a few turns ago). Grimace seems to be playing on autopilot, or at least to a pre-arranged plan as most of his turns are sub 5mins. I still don't understand why I out-expanded him, but I did go back and re-read his PB25 thread so I'm not terribly surprised ... or threatened by him.

Whosit on the other hand has, from my point of view, been playing a strong game ... aside from losing an early city to the barbs. Comrade 007 visible here gives a good idea of his Worker force, and they have been actively used to quickly speed his new cities. The Settler is clearly going to appear next turn, so I'll be interested to see where he is going to build the next part of the border.

I'm scared of Whosit; AGG/CHM probably wants an early war where the promo differential makes a big difference, and we have more compressed / contested borders than he has so far with Grimace. Having said that, and promo-difference aside, I think Grimace is the weaker of the two of us and might make a more sensible early target. Whosit has grabbed an early Archery and is using them as MP, which may imply a more defensive stance ... or it may just be that he's saving the hammers that I'm currently putting into Axes.

My city of Arkose is by far the closest to the centre of the Island, so it will be interesting to see how they both expand into it. I need to double-check, but I think I now know where all of Grimace's cities are located, so he doesn't have one off-island yet. Whosit is still a dark area, and now I have the terrain of Island #3 on my map, I don't think I'll be trading it with him soon ... or at least not on a 1 for 1.

I decided to split the post and push Tech & Econ into a separate one...

[Dreylin]

Part 4: Economy and Technology - musings

So, as you've seen through the previous screenshots I'd be running break-even at about 30% slider, and here's where it's going:


32gpt in City & Civics costs means that an average city is costing me 4gpt. Easy enough, though the next is likely to cost more and so I'll be looking for spots that will quickly get me to 5/6gpt to break even.

The island city is a no-brainer: +1gpt per city for intercontinental routes is +8gpt, plus another 5gpt from the city itself (Route, Clams & City tile). After that though there's a lot more lead-in time to profitability. Much as I want to found the Eastern linking city, that has no prospect to turn a profit in the short term and would need to be delayed.

On re-review, the best candidate is actually the Western "Commerce City" location, which would get 3cpt immediately from trade route and centre tile, and then would work a first-ring Crabs for an additional 2commerce and then grow onto riverside tiles.

Second is the SW Horses site, which has riverside tiles and can incubate cottages for Gneiss. This may even be first, since the distance maintenance would be lower.

Hmmmm, I'd put plans for Settler builds mostly on hold, but now I think they may have to make a resurgence...


Technology:

I forgot to take a shot of this, but apart from 1/3 of Meditation, I have nothing down the religious line. I've just finished Maths & Masonry to open up HG, and apart from a possible detour to Archery to access a cheaper MP units, the next tech is going to be one of Currency or Alphabet to start to rescue my economy.

No-one will be surprised to hear that I've been flip-flopping on this choice, will they...?

For the record, right now I have not met anyone with either technology, so no KTB. Currency is also clearly the prize for EXP-me, with cheap Markets giving +2happy (with Silks down the line); but it is also almost twice the cost of Alphabet (although it will accumulate KTB faster). Here's my current analysis:

Currency:
Gives +1 commerce per city immediately on discovery.
Can be pushed to +2 if I plan to settle a second island city at the same time.
Pushes to +3 if someone else researches Alphabet and agrees OB.
Access to Markets & Wealth builds.

Alphabet:
Gives +1 commerce per city if someone else agrees to Open Borders.
If someone else researches first, then reduces the value of own research by their number of cities.
Access to Research builds.


So the max benefit is clearly with Currency again, but does the benefit of Alphabet coming online earlier actually offset that delay. Well it seems to me that the risk / reward of Alphabet comes in having sufficient trading partners willing to give OB to fill up your routes, but not themselves having enough incentive to research it themselves. In this I think I find myself well-off, since I am the one exploring and neither Jowy nor Fenn have met anyone else on my home island. Both would likely accept OB, and together they would fill my routes pre-Currency. I know Jowy has not been exploring, and similarly Adrien/Mardoc are unlikely to have invested in that with a war to distract them. The risk then is that Fenn's exploration has headed West and he's on the way to Island #2 ahead of me. If that's the case, he could be justified in going for Alphabet himself; that would fill 6/9 of my routes, so researching Alphabet myself would only be worth the remaining 3 routes from Jowy pre-Currency.

So there's still some uncertainty there, but what about the other benefit of both technologies - the ability to convert Hammers into Commerce via Wealth and Research builds? Now in general Wealth builds are considered the preferable choice since it offers flexibility for upgrades, etc. and doesn't commit you to a chosen path until the last minute, thus maximising KTB. I'll be honest and say that I don't think I've ever built Research before.

However, I was reading Joey's PB22 thread(*) and he made some interesting points on the subject during the post where he discusses why Gawdzak's late-game economy will falter compared to his (I think, I can't find the post right now). Anyway, that has made me reevaluate the benefits of Research builds, and in this case, I think that for the short period between Alphabet and Currency at least, it will offer value enough to justify selecting Alphabet as the next research target. But, either way there are quite a few turns of saving gold before making a run at either, and I think I'll keep putting that 1bpt into Currency until then.


* I found lots of parts of this thread very informative, especially the treatise on Filler Cities.

[Commodore]

However, I was reading Joey's PB22 thread(*) and he made some interesting points on the subject during the post where he discusses why Gawdzak's late-game economy will falter compared to his (I think, I can't find the post right now).

Just a note...Gawdzak did not in fact falter and that economy roared to an impressively fast space win.