So that would be before both The Wheel and Fishing? I'm fine with delaying both of those as long as we have plenty for the worker to do, which we should. And we can still build a scouting workboat that returns when we do finish fishing.
For me, the bigger issue is delaying pottery. We aren't too upset about farming the floodplains in the meantime, but we do want to get terraces and cottages down sooner rather than later.
On the balance, it's probably worth it, because so much of the tech's value is tied up in being first to it.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Delaying pottery is kind of bad, to be honest. If we can expand as far as I'd like, we'll crash the economy pretty hard, so getting cottages down is good.
It might depend a lot on what our land looks like, to be honest, and where our opponents are.
(October 14th, 2019, 16:25)AutomatedTeller Wrote: Delaying pottery is kind of bad, to be honest. If we can expand as far as I'd like, we'll crash the economy pretty hard, so getting cottages down is good.
Very true.
The counter argument is that raising our happy cap allows the cities to catch up by working more cottage tiles per turn at a higher population, but then that shifts the burden to growing high before we might really want to do so (aka, before we run out of horizontal growth options).
I think that you are very much correct that we need to see more of the land.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Turn the 5th, where we find the end of the world as we know, and we feel fine
Or just the end of the peninsula. Found some cows and more seafood. Also, some fish that looks unusable right now. Cow makes that area a lot more palatable - still not great.
That is native america over there - I hovered over it (bottom left). We have not yet met him.
For scouting, I'm thinking of Red circle, then the tundra hill.
Demos
Note that everyone but GKC got a score bump. GKC started with mining, and is expansive, so i'm guessing he's teching BW and was working a plains forest and now a PH Fill. At a guess.
Does the EXP (and other production bonuses) not show in the demos? I just always assumed that they did.
I actually like cows and other production resources a lot more than most people, I think. Would rather have that than another clam or an ocean fish. Though it would be really nice to have both - uncovering another fish or two, or even a land food in the tiles N of the capital that we will probably see in two turns (ex. moving from tundra hill to floodplains), goes a long way towards making that land more palatable. As it is, I see room for 3 cities on the peninsula, 1 of which is complete filler, and 1 filler city N of the capital.
Weird about the fish. I bet there is more snaky land to the west - most map scripts won't spawn fish more than 2 tiles from the land, but there is always the possibility for funky stuff. Best case scenario, there's an island. Even a crappy one will be a nice commerce boost when we have ten cities.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
So, currently, our best site for city #2 is probably for the cows - either 1S or 1 NW. Hopefully, there are better sites south and west, cause those aren't awesome. That said, a city near the cows seals off the peninsula for us, which is nice
I edited that pic - the black lines are I think the 2 best scout moves - no point in going to the other tundra coast, cause the only tile it shows is one I can't work unless it's an island.
I'm trying to decide where to send the scout after that.
Green gives us scouting on what looks like our best land - south of the cap. On the other hand, we should have 10-12 turns of quecha scouting that can be done there before a settler comes out, which should show us any good 2nd city sites that way.
Red gives us scouting into the center of the map, which is likely going to be land that we will need to dispute with others.
A question that might inform us is whether or not we want to meet Mr Cairo and from what direction. No matter where we come from, he's going to figure out eventually that we are neighbors
I pretty much reflexively pulled back from meeting him, but it might be an advantage to meet him earlier, so we can get charts on him sooner than later.
I guess now I'm thinking Red and bouncing along the jungle, meeting Mr Cairo from the south... but I'd be interested to hear what you think of those choices.
I do think that, if possible, we want to meet around the time that the earliest of three things happen: 1) we start making enough science for a known tech bonus (which for this setup, I believe is 20spt), 2) we have a trade connection (even pre-open borders), and 3) we want to settle against the border. It would be nice to meet from the south or even southeast.
I do think that we should really prioritize scouting SW of the capital, but even the most aggressive plans have us growing on at least one quecha, and so I think that is fine to favor red.
I almost want to build another scout instead of a quecha. Long-term, it can fogbust just as well as a warrior can. It's definitely not a good settler escort or at actually dealing with barbs that do spawn post turn 40, so it's not all upside, but it'll ideally get us more map knowledge and more quickly.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
![[Image: pb47t5land.JPG]](https://dl.dropbox.com/s/ouv3wpzgq9g18z7/pb47t5land.JPG)
![[Image: pb47t5demos.JPG]](https://dl.dropbox.com/s/wvnpfmy0fszoyvs/pb47t5demos.JPG)
![[Image: pb47t6land.JPG]](https://dl.dropbox.com/s/brbl8bfi83bn846/pb47t6land.JPG)
![[Image: pb57t6demos.JPG]](https://dl.dropbox.com/s/dw8gf0fsfb6vqyu/pb57t6demos.JPG)
![[Image: pb47t7land.JPG]](https://dl.dropbox.com/s/87qc0spomh9pvfc/pb47t7land.JPG)
![[Image: pb47t7demos.JPG]](https://dl.dropbox.com/s/4brjzgqaua3lrbm/pb47t7demos.JPG)