Astronaut without sin confounds press, invites trio to control civilization

[SevenSpirits]

Now, what else happened in the world this turn? Sian dealt a big blow to Yuri's Cataphract stack, for one.


Yuri had 8-9 cataphracts there last turn. I actually thought he was going to take Code Geass. But instead it looks like he stood still to heal (he had a medic with him) and Sian took the initiative on his turn and did decisively well.

There are still more Cataphracts in Air Gear though. Yuri isn't defeated quite yet.

Regardless, I like Novice's plan of trying to take a city or two off Sian. Code Geass if it's still there, or maybe the two on the island, are good candidates. So I moved our galleons in that direction and made a Trebuchet in Ganymede.

But OK, what's this? Those galleons do not appear to be heading towards Luddicator right now. I mean, maybe they just decided to group up first, but I dunno, it's kind of ominous.



I'm worried they are instead planning to go at Yuri. So I tried to warn him. Prepare for AI Diplo -


We are your friend! (Also, there's maybe a hint that we have some information since we're sending our metaphorical two cents. But that's secondary.)



Let's be war allies I guess?


Our scouts have sharp eyes, bring news! Many men with horses come riding great wooden fish. Use Iron to protect your coastal cities bordering Mackoti, Thessalonica and Iconium!

As frequently happens when they let me out of the asylum to send diplo messages to Yuri, we got a bit of a response:
Me (text sent along with the save): Sorry it's so late - my fault
Yuri: No worries, I will hold the turn for a while myself - need to process
everything that happened since my last turn
Me: No kidding [Luddicator declares on Sian, Mackoti makes peace with us, Mackoti declares on Luddicator, Sian wipes his Cataphracts, we declare on Luddicator... kind of a lot since his last turn!]
Yuri: Sorry for asking, but I just need to check. Is the attached screenshot
an offer you really made, or a bug? Looks like a strange trade...
Me: That is an offer I really made.
Yuri: Thanks

Caught up in the joy of making far too many diplo offers, I re-offered something to Fierce, too. We don't need those resources, so why not try?


Power graph and demos.



That's about it! Join us next turn, where we'll ask why the poor have no food at Christmas.

[Gaspar]

That's about it! Join us next turn, where we'll ask why the poor have no food at Christmas.

Quite apt.

[SevenSpirits]

I'm now thinking my previous tech rate estimate of 200-300bpt in my recent tech planning post is low. I think we'll be making almost 400bpt after the golden age ends with SP and FR.

So 400bpt (might be a bit less, depends on what we work and how much wealth we build - my guess for our current output sans golden age but with the civic swap is 380bpt) starting next turn, plus about 300g currently saved and another 165g worth of golden age bonus next turn, plus rounding up to the next 100 since we'll raze a barb city too, so 500g, or about 675 beakers.

In three turns we'll have produced 400*3 + 675 = 1875b which is more than enough for Monarchy-Feudalism-Guilds, so I guess let's get all of those in a turn each. From there we can reevaluate. Banking-Economics might be good (and is the most efficient way to Rifling), or alternately Gunpowder first, possibly followed by Chemistry before we finish the Rifling path. Frigates could be necessary to deter Galleon harassment by Mackoti.

[novice]

Nice.

5 turns now of Rep/Bur/CS/SP/FR, followed by 5 turns of Rep/Bur/Slavery/SP/OR, then start drafting rifles. Should be doable if we get a great merchant in Io.

And we could use the Economics merchant for teching too, saving it for Sid's might be too long term.

[kjn]

"War is the continuation of policy by other means."
- Carl Von Clausewitz

German philosophers (well, Clausewitz was hardly a philosopher, but he had read his Hegel) are best in German:

So sehen wir also, daß der Krieg nicht bloß ein politischer Akt, sondern ein wahres politisches Instrument ist, eine Fortsetzung des politischen Verkehrs, ein Durchführen desselben mit anderen Mitteln.

Me: That is an offer I really made.
Yuri: Thanks

More accurately, say you could have said it was a genuine diplomatic message.

[oledavy]

For those reading along, here's how strong the Kremlin is going to be.

Say we want to whip a building in a city with Forge, Factory, a Power Plant, and Organized Religion. Every population gives 20 * 2.25 = 45 hammers. Pretty nice right?

But we don't have Assembly line yet, just Forges and OR. If we throw in the Kremlin, how much do we get per population? 20 / .66 * 1.5 = 45 hammers. Just the same.

Can you imagine if the Three Gorges Dam came an era earlier, had one third the price, and also gave you a free Factory and 5 health in every city? Well there's one big caveat, it only works on whips, but yeah. The Kremlin.

I never realized just how powerful the Kremlin was. I'll have to remember that for future games.

[novice]

I never realized just how powerful the Kremlin was. I'll have to remember that for future games.

Check out T-Hawk's comments on Adventure 45, where you could start the game with any two wonders.

I chose Kremlin and Globe Theatre.

[SevenSpirits]

Exciting and potentially game-truncating developments in the tech thread. Here are our chats about it. (Spoilered for length.)

11:30 AM
me: hey
11:33 AM
Novice: hey

want to play 23?
11:34 AM
You're welcome to if so, I'm currently busy burning cities in pbem17

me: I am

(looking at it)

I need your opinion on something

remember I offered peace for is island city

well, luddicator accepted peace with mackoti and gave away the island city, and then accepted peace with us and gave us nothing
11:35 AM
Novice: yeah?

hm

funny

I guess the joke's on us?
11:36 AM
me: well, it's pretty obviously a bug, question is whether it's a bug that warrants working arounbd

I mean if we offer someone 10gpt for iron and they lose iron before accepting, they shouldn't be able to just accept 10gpt
11:37 AM
Novice: yeah it's obviously a bug

a perfect civ player would know about it and take measures to avoid it though
11:38 AM
like the warrior / spear in same build queue thing from pb3

me: by which you mean, never make trade offers to anyone?

Novice: did Mackoti get anything else in his peace deal?

me: yes, he got 4 cities
11:39 AM
the two jungle ones and both islands near him
11:40 AM
Novice: how would you suggest fixing this?
11:41 AM
me: one option is replaying since luddicator's turn, and don't allow him to accept an offer he can't fulfill

another is to just note it

I think it's worth bringing up

we should not allow it in the future

Novice: well probably the diplo screen just showed him peace for peace

me: I think you should be prohibited from accepting offers you can't fulfill
11:42 AM
people would need to decline all offers on the first go

then they can see the real offeres

Novice: yeah, they probably did decline the offers initially to check out the situation
11:43 AM
if they did it seems in pretty bad faith

me: yeah

Novice: ok, I guess ask them to reopen the save, decline all diplo offers, and ask if they agree that the turn should be replayed

1:25 PM
Novice: you there?
1:26 PM
me: yeah
1:27 PM
Novice: thoughts on the pbem23 situation

?
1:28 PM
me: did you see my tech thread post?
1:31 PM
Novice: ah, no
1:34 PM
ok, I guess we wait

btw you're sure they didn't accept the peace for gold deal?

(I haven't checked the save yet)

me: yes, because we did not get their map

(nor any gold)
1:35 PM
(and they have gold, and 0gpt)
6 minutes
1:41 PM
Novice: if they accept our other deal we can play on, and they gift us the stuff next turn
1:43 PM
me: yeah

they have 8g less than we asked for, but htat's not a big deal

3:33 PM
Novice: heh, luddite's being a jerk it seems

me: yeah, I'm really pissed off

Novice: I don't want to invest too heavily emotionally in these games but that's pretty provocative
3:34 PM
we should gift an invasion fleet to Sian
3:36 PM
or just move on to the next game

me: yeah, that's how I feel right now

Novice: errr

me: ok, just read that

Novice: what is Luddite talking about?

me: do you know what he's talking about?

lol

Novice: hehe

who knew no diplo could stub toes like that
3:58 PM
me: yeah

Novice: what is he referring to though? Trying to remember what diplo we did with luddite
3:59 PM
me: the only deal between us ever that has been accepted was open borders, right?
4:00 PM
Novice: yeah... didn't he consistently refuse open borders for the longest time

me: yes

Novice: did you play with him in another game or something? I didn't
4:01 PM
me: pbem19 I pissed him off

Novice: aha, so his first paragraph is probably referring to that?
4:02 PM
me: oh, maybe!
4:03 PM
Novice: well, I'm headed to bed, sounds like Luddite needs to cool down anyway

maybe we shouldn't fan the flames right now

see if pindicator has something sensible to say

me: ok

I won't commit us to anything yet

Novice: Luddite's ire just moved me from provoked to baffled

me: same
4:04 PM
I was so mad, now I'm confused and kind of amused

Novice: same here

ok, see you later
4:07 PM
you should post our chat in our spoiler thread

me: ok

[spacemanmf]

Crazy stuff. This is what happens when you have too long to play a turn, eh.

So if they are to play it properly, they don't accept peace or they accept peace but pay you loads of gold (and offer you their world map).

What happens if they don't accept peace - are you in a position to easily cause more damage?

[novice]

What happens if they don't accept peace - are you in a position to easily cause more damage?

Our units are slightly out of position, but we have tons of macemen and galleons. His coastal cities are very poorly defended.