[Spoilers] Louis XIV of Babylon

[SleepingMoogle]

Lord Parkin has found the eastern border and sent a greeting. Wonders did come up almost immediately, and he seems to make quite a big deal out of the Ind trait. He's not looking at the Gardens though, so there's no reason for us to compete at this point.

Rego mentioned that a scout of WarriorKnight can be found to the southwest of their lands, which would reduce the list of Civs to meet to just Nakor and Luddite. The scout in the south is currently coming north again as the road east was blocked by Locke's borders, but he's probably the best bet to meet them. Nakor should be roughly east of Locke, and Luddite in the far northeast.

[SleepingMoogle]

A Scout of Nakor and Gaspar found our Warrior near Sunrise and we exchanged greetings. This reduces the list of Civs to meet to just WarriorKnight and luddite, so the two scouting Warriors out there have their missions now. The one currently near Sunrise and Rego (Cicero) will go west and south to locate WarriorKnight, while Aristotle (currently somewhat north of Locke) will start scouting to the northeast. Given that he was already headed in that direction as the path eased was blocked by sea and Locke's borders, there's little time lost.

The big news over the last few turns was the founding of Hinduism and the construction of the Great Lighthouse. Based on score changes, it looks like luddite may have been the founder of Hinduism, but I know from the top 5 city screen that Sunrise and Rego built the Lighthouse. Quite a gamble with 4 Industrious leaders around, but congratulations to them. I guess we now know why they moved to a coastal start.

Back at home, things are finally starting to fall into place now. Dream is working the Gold resource, and the first cottage at Insomnia is finished as well now. This brings our GNP a little more in line with the other Civs.



Looking better than a few turns ago, but the demographics definitely suggest I'm not expanding quite fast enough. It is encouraging though that I'm keeping up despite working fewer tiles on average.

Anyway, this doesn't change the plan too much but I need to consider having a second city help out with Workers/Settlers. Perhaps city 4 will, which will be founded next turn (T60) and has a large amount of hills it can utilize.

A quick overview:

Insomnia is currently training Worker 5 before finishing its Granary while growing to size 5, then starting on another Settler.

REM state is currently working on a Granary. I'm a bit hestitant using the whip here, but I may do so to get out another Worker soon-ish.

Dream is just growing right now. Probably not quite as fast as it could have while working the gold, but I need the commerce right now. The forested tile to the west needs one more turn to finish the slow-built cottage, which will happen once Writing it in and it can switch to a Library. It also has some hammers invested in a Warrior, so I will probably finish him for MP duty in the planned city to the northeast.

That city will probably be city 5 as it is a quite strong location and reinforces the current border. After that the expansion will go south again, with two cities planted south of the current border.

It's also becoming evidence that I'll need Fishing pretty soon, so I'll squeeze that in after Math before starting on the religious techs towards Monarchy. Something I'm wondering about now is whether or not I should be pushing to Code of Laws, even though this would stunt the growth of my cities by delaying Monarchy. Time will probably tell.

[SleepingMoogle]

Last night I had a chat with Rego:

9:16 PM me: well fortunately that seems sorted now
Dan: has the turn rolled?
me: I haven't checked yet.. can have a quick look if you wish though :-)
Dan: it's ok
9:17 PM i can't get in to play for another few hours anyways
but you've probably seen our scout hit your borders
?
me: Yeah.. the way north is blocked by my borders for now
Dan: that's what i figured
9:18 PM are you anywhere near writing?
me: I actually have a LP warrior on the other side wanting to meet up with you guys
it's not too far away now
but I'm about to plant a new city so I don't know what that'll do for the research rate
9:19 PM Are you guys anywhere near writing yet?
Dan: so is LP east to you and luddite east of LP?
no - you'll probably get writing before us
9:20 PM me: actually LP is probably your western neighbor
Dan: really?
me: but he's blocked by those tiles you mentioned earlier
Dan: ah
9:21 PM so us, you, mackoti, luddite, LP?
west to east?
me: That's the best guess for now yes
Dan: interesting
9:22 PM so i don't think we need to hash out an ironclad border agreement now
i don't think it would be productive this early on
when there's so much unknown
but i was curious as to your thoughts on the region in between us
i'd assume that cicero has found our borders or soon will
so you know we're about 10 or so tiles away
9:23 PM and obviously there are other civs that might be interested in those lands
i don't know if this new city you're planning on planting is further south of your current citeis or not
me: I saw them yeah.. from what I can see though we're the only ones who can realistically settle that passage anytime soon
9:24 PM Dan: yeah
adlain is not too far away
and plako and WK maybe
but mostly you and i, i agree
conveniently, that's the two civs that i WANT settling in there ;-)
9:25 PM me: hmm, I'm blocked off to the north and have a more or less natural border forming with Ioan and Mackoti, so most of my expansion will end up having to go to the south
Dan: right - we are also blocked north and west
and south i would assume i'll be in discussions with captain 5 cities (plako)
me: Adlain is really too far away to seriously compete.. the passage is on the northern edge of the jungle right?
9:26 PM Dan: that's why i thought i'd start the convversation with you now
so we dont' feel like we need to send impis around
and you don't feel like you need to send musketeers around either
something we could both agree on
9:27 PM me: definitely.. early warfare would probably be a deathsentence for the both of us
9:28 PM getting a border agreement this early seems a bit premature as well. Perhaps we can simply agree to notify each other if we're planning a city in the direction of that passage?
Dan: right that's what i was saying
9:29 PM so are you at liberty to share where (or at least what direction) your soon to be founded city is going?
i'll say that our next city will not be going further east than reading (the city you can see0
9:30 PM me: further south though? :-)
Dan: no
probably a bit NWish
me: the next city will go east, so there's no need to worry
I do have two tentative city locations south of my current border though
10 minutes
9:41 PM Dan: ok
brb
me: no probs, I'll be around for another couple of hours
10 minutes
9:52 PM Dan: ok i'm back
9:53 PM me: welcome back :-)
9:54 PM Dan: people coming over and wanting me to work!!!
9:55 PM me: :o
how dare they?
Dan: i know
9:58 PM ok so are we in agreement about notifying if either of us settle in that jungle area?
any cities east of me or south of you?
10:00 PM me: Sounds like a plan
Dan: consider it signed then
so is this your 4th city then? or 5th?
10:01 PM me: 4th.. I wish it were number 5 hehe
Dan: yeah yeah yeah
he says to the guy with only 2 :-)
10:03 PM me: :o
Well you're not last-placeia anymore
Dan: right
me: congratulations on the lighthouse by the way :-)
Dan: thanks
10:04 PM it's kind of depressing to go up 20 points in one turn and still only be in "3rd-to-last-place-ia" :-(
me: well.. the first places are propped up by wonders and holy cities and the like
Dan: yeah i know
me: and plako has some spoils of war to go along with it
Dan: i'm less concerned about scores than i am with the fact that plako has 5 cities and i have 2
10:05 PM me: yeah.. he is the top dog for now
but he may have painted a giant target on his back in the process
Dan: hopefully (for us!) :-P
10:06 PM me: indeed
10:07 PM Oh, I had a question as well
10:08 PM Dan: ok
me: I'm about to reach my espionage limit on Locke.. do you feel anything for an agreement to invest points up to where we can see each other's demographics?
Dan: yes i would agree with that
we're actually putting ours on you right now
10:09 PM but my plan was to swap off once we got there
me: Heh, no worries
consider that signed as well then ;-)
Dan: gotcha
10:10 PM ok i gotta run
ttyl
me: alright, see you around

The summary is that we will let each other know if we're planning a city that's bringing our borders closer together (pretty much like the agreement I made with scooter in PBEM3 and PBEM7), and to invest enough espionage points in each other for visibility on the demographics.

Most of all though, this chat was a good opportunity to gauge their intent. From Rego's messages, he and Sunrise started on a peninsula with few connections to the other Civs. This might mean that they could make the decision to aggressively settle towards me to claim as much land as possible and backfill their own area afterwards. Or I could be the number one target once they have no more room to peacefully expand.

The vibe I got from the conversation though was that they'd rather be friends. Regoarrar was pretty forthcoming with information, noting among other things that the next Zulu city won't be planted closer to me than the current closest city. But especially this comment:

but mostly you and i, i agree
conveniently, that's the two civs that i WANT settling in there ;-)

This was with regards to settling the land in between us. One could argue this is just a pragmatic note, but given the whole conversation it much more feels like a desire to cooperate. Anyway, since we already agreed not to screw over each other when it comes to claiming disputed land (which is a good thing.. I definitely do not want to be choked by Impis as a result of settling disagreements), I'm now starting to consider whom of my neighbors are serious candidates to ally with.

And that is really not that hard of a consideration. Rego and Sunrise are experienced MP guys who put together a solid plan that has already paid off, whereas Ioan and Mackoti seem to be floundering already. Mackoti admitted they tried to get Stonehenge but were beaten to it by Lord Parkin and they just seem silent outside of that. Adlain is found to the far south, and probably won't be a factor for a while, but as far as I can tell he hasn't really done anything outside of grabbing Buddhism.

So between those three, I'd much rather ally up with the team that seems by far to be the most solid one so far. If that can be managed, I'm basically free to claim land further south and possibly go to war with far easier targets. It's true that with the Great Lighthouse the Zulus make a tempting target right now; I just don't see myself taking that away from them anytime soon.. Perhaps with a massive tech advantage, but I don't really see that happening either.

For now, let's try buddying up with the Zulus. They'll want someone to open trade routes with and I'm by far the closest Civ for them to realize that.

[Sciz]

You got a picture of where the zulu are?

[SleepingMoogle]

Here's the current situation:



In an earlier message I already told Rego I'm planning the cities immediately south of my border (though not exactly where). The tentative location at the clams is one I'd love to get, but currently that would be overreaching myself and quite likely set myself up to be Impi-rushed.

With Writing coming in, I opened borders with both Rego/Sunrise and Lord Parkin. There's quite a bit of activity around my border right now: Lord Parkin's Warrior is currently SE of Dream and headed west, Adlain's scout is waiting for him there, as is Rego's scout just SW of that. Also there's a Scout from WarriorKnight near the Zulu city currently headed west.

It may feel like I'm on a nexus of sorts, but LP's scout happened to pass by Mackoti just before he placed a city that blocked any further passage without open borders. He sent me a message mentioning a border agreement, to which I said that after founding the planned city northeast of Dream (the location isn't visible in the screenshot, but I think it'll have to be my next city for now since it grabs Cows, Corn and Whales), I'd be happy to discuss an agreement for the remaining land. Our borders have grown towards each other fairly naturally so far, and there's not much reason to complicate that. Mackoti seemed receptive to that at least, which is a good thing.

Luddite is the only Civ that I haven't met yet, and according to Lord Parkin the only direct route right now is west of his lands. He also mentioned luddite has a scout somewhere near Nakor's capital. Since I am nowhere near either, negotiating open borders with Mackoti (trade route income should help here) seems like the best bet, though my scouts are continuing their explorations for now.

Anyway, build-wise this turn saw both Insomnia and Dream complete chops into Libraries. Insomnia will switch back to finishing the Granary while growing to size 5 next turn as it's being whipped pretty much every 10 turns now, while I'll want Dream to get another chop asap to finish its Library and start generating more beakers. It can then finish the Granary while growing to max size.

REM state is finishing its Granary manually. With 5 Workers I can delay number six a little longer especially since Maths takes so long to research. It needs 3 more turns to finish construction, after that I'll train another Worker to join the one currently in the area pre-chopping forests. Up to the northeast, Nap is just waiting for its borders to expand so I can pick improve the Sheep and Copper resources. In hindsight its positioning may not have been the best, but we can't change that anymore.

[Sciz]

so how's it going?

[SleepingMoogle]

Honestly, not that great.

And I don't have much of an excuse either. Right now I'm much more busy than I expected it to be when I signed up, and my heart simply isn't in this game as much as it should. Both I feel have caused my game to be less than perfect, and both are really my own fault. With other projects I spent time thinking about micro and long-term plans.. now I just don't have the time for it, and generally feel like there's better things to do with my time.

One slight positive is that it made this game feel more natural (something which I did hope would happen) than the others, but it definitely could be better.



This is how things look right now. Yes, still at 4 cities which really feels like an embarrassment considering the plans for the Hanging Gardens earlier. A Settler is on his way now to the hill northeast of Dream to found the fifth city there, but I really need to speed up. Most Civs appear to be operating on 5 cities already if the demographics are any indication, and some even have 6 already. Maybe I underestimated just how fast expansion would be for everyone, but I haven't adapted to that well at all.

Anyway, quick plans for now:

Insomnia: Just whipped a settler, overflow will finish the Library next turn. Then regrow to size 5 and start on another Settler.
REM state: Currently working on a Settler. Workers are pre-chopping the forests surrounding the city right now for the Hanging Gardens.
Dream: Currently working on a Granary while growing. There's no specific goal for this city other than to generate as many beakers as possible.
NAP: On a Granary as well. I'm considering having it train a settler as well once it has grown to found a backline city to the north grabbing Furs for additional happiness.

Still, the whole point of the gardens is to expand expand expand before they finish. Does it even make sense to go for them anymore? I'll stick on course and finish Math for now, but I'll need to make a decision on that soon. At the very least Mackoti already mentioned he was interested in the wonder, and there's bound to be more; it's not a project that can be delayed much, if at all so building more settlers first is likely to cause me to lose the race.

[Sciz]

Might as well go for the wonder if you've already come this far.

I always feel like this while playing my PBEMs too though. I don't really have time to plan long term micro stuff. I plan more than while playing SP of course, but not much more.

[SleepingMoogle]

Might as well go for the wonder if you've already come this far.

I always feel like this while playing my PBEMs too though. I don't really have time to plan long term micro stuff. I plan more than while playing SP of course, but not much more.

That's my current thought as well for now, but I'm wary of tunnel vision if the rate of expansion isn't increased sufficiently. HG is not that strong a wonder if you don't have enough cities to grow, so we need to be prepared to let go of it if we have too few cities.

I'm going to make an effort to start updating this thread more often again. The turn has just rolled to 75, so tonight I'll work on a solid report for that at least. Turn 74 wasn't very exciting: Insomnia now has a Library and needs 4 turns to regrow to size 5. Conveniently this also happens to be the amount of turns needed to train an Axeman, which will be good for frontline city protection.

[SleepingMoogle]

Turn 75:



Whew, Math is almost here now. It will finish on T77, the same turn the fifth city is planted.

The tentative city order for now (cities for the immediate future):

5: Commerce city northeast of Dream, grabbing Corn, Cows and Whales (to be founded on turn 77)
6: Mixed city south of REM State, grabbing Fish, Cows and Wine
7: Production city south of Dream, Grabbing Corn and Pigs
8: Filler city north of Nap, grabbing Fish, Crabs, Deer and Furs

Settler 6 is currently being trained at REM State, and number 7 will be started as soon as Insomnia regrows to size 5. I'm of a mind to have NAP train settler 8 since it's close to the planned location already, and I don't have too many other ideas what to build there.

After that, I'll probably need to look further south for expansion. There is a tentative filler location northwest of REM, and a Silver resource can be found east of city 8's location, but for now grabbing more land to the south feels like the way to go.

Some city shots:

Tentative builds:

Insomnia: Axeman -> Settler (whip) -> Axeman -> Settler
REM State: Settler -> Aquaduct (whip with overflow) -> Hanging Gardens (this will probably consume most if not all forests the city has)
Dream: Granary -> Scout (Still need contact with Luddite) -> Worker
Nap: Granary -> Settler -> Axeman
City 5: Granary -> Library


Tech plan:

Maths -> Masonry -> Fishing -> Sailing (gief trade routes)