Strategic directions - long-term planning

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

I used most of novice's plan, and I know I could probably remove some redundancy in this, but the point of this is that we get the same end date (T55 build) without whipping, thus no need to road the copper. Obvious setback here is that it is not a 1T build, which could backfire if (when) someone else builds the henge. Chops all go in on T54, so we'd just be looking at some fail gold, but we still have the whip for a settler.

Ignore sloppiness (please) like the slider and that my tile management is poor. Once I got to the double-whip I wanted to see how it could be done otherwise. I know worker moves could be done differently (no road on copper, more moves available) but I don't have time right now to go back and take a refined swipe.

Is this worth risking?

edit: Finally got the picture to load. Basically the only difference was to start the henge earlier, slow building while growing MM to size 5. Current config gives 13 overflow, 4T to grow to size 6 and unhappiness. This does not include a civic swap to slavery, which would be ideal while the settler is moving. I wish I had more time to tinker with this tonight.

[SevenSpirits]

I think archery will be a fine solution. Another option is to trade away our copper once we have a trade connection with someone.

[Nicolae Carpathia]

I dislike that. Not only do we need a good friend to reciprocate with a copper trade if we happen to need it (and they will demand concessions for it), we're placing our existence on their ability to follow through with 3 mouse clicks.

And if it's with CFC, and they fuck up and fail to give us copper, and we're forced to DOW and break the trades, they will treat it as a breach of a NAP and use it to fuck with us.

So what it comes down to, it means that we won't be able to grow while building cheap warriors if we commit to the Stonehenge plan. That's okay, warriors won't keep us safe when the inevitable dogpile comes. Because we're #1 in score and demographics already.

[SevenSpirits]

I dislike that. Not only do we need a good friend to reciprocate with a copper trade if we happen to need it (and they will demand concessions for it), we're placing our existence on their ability to follow through with 3 mouse clicks.

Huh?

[Nicolae Carpathia]

We trade away copper, <10 turns later we need copper, they can't provide copper, we DOW, they use it as an excuse to backstab us.

Basically, I do not trust CFC to not screw us over if they can get away with it. By all means, we should work with them to improve our position and relations with one another, but at some point the gravy train will end.

In other words, don't give them an excuse to end the relationship early.

[Tyrmith]

If people are going to pull crap, they're going to do it whether or not they have an excuse. That said, relying on other people for something as critical as copper just to make things more efficient seems like a really risky idea for little pay off, particularly since we seem to lack horses.

[Sareln]

We trade away copper, <10 turns later we need copper, they can't provide copper, we DOW, they use it as an excuse to backstab us.

Basically, I do not trust CFC to not screw us over if they can get away with it. By all means, we should work with them to improve our position and relations with one another, but at some point the gravy train will end.

Relying on other people for something as critical as copper just to make things more efficient seems like a really risky idea for little pay off, particularly since we seem to lack horses.

Echoing Nic and Tyrmith, and implicitly NH.

Streamlining and efficiency gains are good, but they need to be balanced against the risks. In this case, I think the efficiency gain (the beaker cost of archery, the hammer differential between archers and warriors x the number of MP we build) is outweighed by the diplomatic risk (exposing ourselves to shenanigans from a team we don't trust and jeopardizing the so-far friendly footing we currently have).

[SleepingMoogle]

Hmm, if we're going after the Fish site, we'll need to incorporate fishing into our tech line somewhere, and soon. Perhaps after Poly, if we manage to grab the religion?

Also, would it be an idea to scout the desert hill north of the fish to see what the area's like? We could move over the MP warrior from MM and swap in the Warrior currently fogbusting the copper city site as needed.

Also, why a spear and not an axe? If human barbs are going to show up soon, that would be a lot more useful.

[zakalwe]

It's a spear because we have to start building it, putting four hammers into it, before copper is connected, to make the micro work out. So it's actually four hammers into a warrior at that point, which upgrades to a spear.

[SleepingMoogle]

Alright.. well, at least we have some defense against a chariot rush then.