OSG 29A - The Charismatic Introverts

[Ianus]

I favor defending Crypto is the strategic and range advantage it gives them into our empire means that we will need to fortify our core more than we otherwise might. Plus we can keep them off that world without penalty (beating them in battles actually intimidates them and makes them cautious) but once they settle the world we can't dislodge them without starting a war. Plus we don't have anything else going on and playing defense would be something to do.
That's my vote anyway, proceed as you see fit!

[haphazard1]

Crypto wuld give the rocks an outpost right in our core region, which is not good.

But the anything else we have going on is factory building. We just this turn got IRC4. Taking several turns to rush build missile boats to send to Crypto means delaying increasing our production. Is that worth doing?

The rocks will keep trying to settle Crypto, since we can not settle it ourselves. They have more larges (their 'Mako' design) and a couple huges moving around to our west. So if we manage to stop this attempt, they will be back with even bigger forces soon.

I should be able to finish the turnset tomorrow morning (still within the usual 48 hours I think), so there is still time to comment and advise.  Sorry to drag this out, but this is a significant decision and after not reacting to the bears earlier I did not want to just ignore the threat and leave the next player with no time to react.

[haphazard1]

Taking a look around our empire, our worlds are nicely maxed out for our current tech and are focusing on research. The exception is Cygni, our world that is most exposed to the Meklars, where we are investing in defense bases. All of this looks good.

Our tech is mainly on Computers, to get IRC4 as soon as possible so we can finally upgrade our factory controls and add more production to our worlds. Our substantial advantage over the AIs in population from all our large, habitable worlds is not translating to a big production edge due to still having only two factories per pop. The Meklars, with IRC 3 and their racial bonus, have 5 factories per pop yet only have maybe a 40% production advantage over us. Once we get IRC4 and remax our worlds, we should be in much better shape.

I do adjust tech spending a bit, keeping the most spending on computers but shifting a few clicks to get the full ongoing research bonus in other fields where that is possible.

The rocks have another colony ship incoming to Crypto, the ultra-rich Radiated world in our space. We have 60 laser fighters stationed there to drive it off, which should be sufficient.

I also note that we have some bombers coming in to Uxmai, but the rest are heading for Palladia now that the comet crisis is over. I will send the rest along to Palladia once they reach Uxmai.

I also shift our spying spending away from the kitties to the Meklar. Tougher target but many valuable techs, and no risk of diplomatic fallout if we get caught since the erratic machines already flipped out and declared war on us.

Time to see what happens.

2421 -- We drive off the Silicoid colony ship, but it launches missiles before it goes and kills one laser fighter. Also, an unknown spy destroys our defense base on Exis, our ultra-rich world.

I shift spending at Exis to build a new defense base. Computers is now at 7%; Weapons is at 9%. Bombers arrive at Uxmai and are sent on to join the rest at Palladia.

Our report on the Meklar is now current:

Ion drives? Advanced soil enrichment? Class VI deflectors? The machines are really piling on the tech. Would love a steal here, of just about anything, but given their computer tech it is not especially likely. Still, we may get lucky.

2422 - Exis replaces its defense base, shifts spending back to the reserve.

Tech is ripening; weapons has also entered the percentages.

2423 - Quiet turn. The Meklar have just added reduced waste 40% to their collection.

2424 - IRC4 comes in.

I choose Battle Computer V as our next tech, since we are planning fleet construction in the near-ish future and we have improved scanner already. Tech spending is equalized, except for weapons which is at 30%; I shift all but a click into construction to help speed up Zortrium armor, and this lights up the indicator for bonus there.

Time to go through all our worlds and start more factories. Except for Endoria, which I keep on research spending so we do not lose progress; once other planets have remaxed factories we can come back and build more on Endoria. I spread reserve cash around to accelerate the factory building.

I spot the rocks making another try for Crypto, and this time they are serious about it:

They are sending a colony ship and 5 Mako class, a large design that presumably has more than enough weapons and shielding to handle our pop gun fighters. After consulting with experts within the empire, I decide to concede Crypto to the rocks. If we had Controlled Radiated in our tree we could have settled the world ourselves and defended it, but we are not ready for major fleet building and fighting just yet. Increasing our production with more factories is our current top priority, so we can compete with the Meklar.

2425 - Another council vote, another chance to win the game since all races dislike the Meklar. Votes:

Meklar for themselves - 10
Bulrathi for us - 5
Alkari for us - 2
Mrrshan for us - 4
Silicoids for us - 8
Us (12 votes) abstain; would have had 31 of 41 for the victory if we wanted it.

Ion Rifle research completes.

I select neutron blasters as our next tech, for a beam upgrade with a 2-space heavy option if we want that. Research spending is equalized again, although it will be a while yet before we finish building out factories for our improved controls and resume research spending in earnest.

2426 - More factory construction throughout the empire. The kitties have a sizable fleet moving to the Bulrathi world of Tyr:

They are not reported to be at war, but I wonder. Bears have some big ships at Tyr:

2427 - More factories. No sign of the Mrrshan fleet around Tyr, but no reports of war either. Not sure what happened there.

Unknown spies destory our defense base at Rha. The planet is not threatened right now so I continue factory construction, but we need to remember to come back and replace it so the planet has at least one.

2428 - The Alkari deliver a message:

Not sure what the honorable birds were thinking here? We have no ships in their space or otherwise affecting them. Well, time to shift spy spending to the birds to get a current update and maybe steal some of their excellent propulsion tech if we get a chance. They have some ships at their closer world:

And more of the Warbird class moving from Altair to join that.

Exis finishes factory building and starts spending into the reserves again.

2429 - Meklar spies destroy 2 defense bases at Artemis.

And here come the birds, heading for Darrian.

Slowly, thanks to the colony ships; the birds certainly could be moving faster.

Fusion bombs are the main potential issue given the birds' available tech.

With yet another incoming threat, I end my turnset a year early and hand over control of our empire. (Probably should have stopped last turn.) Our worlds:

Factory construction continues slowly -- IRC4 factories are expensive with only IIT9, and we are spending a lot on waste cleanup. Compared to the Meklar with IIT4, RW40%, and advanced eco...well, I don't like where that puts us.

Diplomatic relations:

Items for the next commander:

- Tech spending is being supported by Endoria. It will need more factories once some other world can support research.
- Rho is without defense bases due to spies.
- Rocks heading to Crypto; our laser pop guns are still there.
- Birds coming to Darrian.
- Our bomber fleet is parked at Palladia.
- Only Exis has maxed factories for the new controls; it is now refilling the reserve.

Good luck!

[DaveV]

It's worth noting that if you drop spending to zero in a field, you're doing more than throwing away compound interest: it actually removes some (10%?) of the beakers you already have invested, each turn. This is a pretty harsh penalty; it's almost never worth dropping a field to zero once it's been started. Handily one click is sufficient to preserve your investment.

Good to know. I'll be more careful with the research sliders in the future.

- Rho is without defense bases due to spies.

Another good reason to overbuild missile bases. I used to think that the the world chosen for missile base sabotage is the AI's designated invasion target, but now I think it's random (maybe part of kyrub's changes, intentional or not).

[Sullla]

Haphazard: while you're learning Master of Orion, it's a good idea to keep a version of the tech tree handy. On the Weapons tree, Hard Beam would have advanced us to the next rung on the ladder, while Neutron Blasters will not. So now we've wasted time researching Ion Rifles and Blasters, plus we still have to research Hard Beam to advance the tree further. Don't beat yourself up about it too much, but this is a good learning lesson here about being careful with tech choices. Our Weapons tech is bad and will be bad for a long time now.

Honestly, this is still a very easy game for Impossible. The AI is always ahead of you in tech on Impossible - get used to the tech screen looking like that. The amazing thing is that some of the other races are so weak that they're behind us. The Alkali have just become our first target. We can easily fend them off and then can look to take that planet of theirs. And the Meklars are at war with the whole galaxy and not interested in us. This is very much our game to lose.

[Mardoc]

Nice report, Haphazard! I have a very good feel for where we are without opening the save yet!

Got it, will aim to play tonight, but it might spill into tomorrow night. Plenty of time for feedback.

Not sure what the honorable birds were thinking here? We have no ships in their space or otherwise affecting them. confused

First guess is that the Meklar did some spying on them and were successful enough to frame us.

The Alkali have just become our first target. We can easily fend them off and then can look to take that planet of theirs. And the Meklars are at war with the whole galaxy and not interested in us. This is very much our game to lose.

Speaking of which:  Lasers, Gatling Lasers, Fusion Bombs, and Class III deflectors for the Birds.  That's a threat to planets, but not much of a threat to a fleet.  It seems to me that we ought to be able to put together a fleet that can take them on as they are.  Maybe some missile boats for space superiority and fusion bombers to handle missile bases (many of which we already have from bombing the comet).  We'd be a bit glass-cannon, with only class II deflectors, but I think our empire is big enough that we can handle some attrition and still get the job done.  Especially because they don't appear to have much of a fleet if we can kill what's incoming; we mostly just need bombers, I suspect.

I vaguely seem to remember some sort of diplomatic penalty for genociding a race; does that mean we should stop before taking Altair?  I feel like we're getting stable enough that I'd be willing to accept a diplo hit in return for another world plus additional captured tech, though.  We are going to want to fight at least one more war in addition to the Alkari, and we're also getting close to a veto block in the Council. Plus the birds have no allies and a few enemies, so taking them on might actually help our relations.

Main competing priority is finishing up our new factories.  Looks like most of our planets are just crossing the x3 mark.  I hate to delay conquest, but it seems that the factories might be a higher priority than one or two new worlds.

Tentatively my plan is:
Darrian pauses factories and focuses on getting a bunch of missile bases up.  We need enough firepower to slaughter the birds before they can drop bombs, because 7 points of shielding won't protect us from fusion bombs on its own.  I'll also send our popgun lasers here; they won't do much damage but maybe can distract the birds while the missile bases do the real work.  Silicoids will get their world since we have too many alternative priorities.

Everywhere else continues factories for the time being.  We're ~halfway with five turns, so finishing up will take maybe four more.  Not worth giving up that much production to start fighting four turns sooner.  After that, I'll need to have the frontier planets build maybe five additional bases each (well, at least the one by the Meklar will need bases).

Then I'll design a missile boat and build some of those plus add some more bombers to our fleet, depending on just how many we currently have.  Maybe I'll start sending scouts to Phantos and Altair to figure out how many missile bases we're going to have to face, so we can plan a fleet size. Not sure if I'll have time to start the conquest or if I'll have to leave that part for Ianus.

What I would *not* focus on:  
- Silicoids would get Quanto.
- Tech would remain on back burner.  One or two worlds would keep that simmering, but it wouldn't go very fast
- The fleet I build would be useful against the Alkari, but probably not against anyone with any more tech than them.  The idea would be to make gains fast and then consolidate/tech up before we pick another fight.

-------------------

If you don't like that, Plan B would be to *not* build a fleet yet but instead spend that cash on research and spies.  With better beams and deflectors, we could look at building longer lasting ships, Huge Auto-Repairs with fusion bombs and Heavy Neutron Blasters or something.

I personally feel like we should take the opportunity while we have it, though.  Hit the birds while they're still depending on laser weapons and nuclear missiles, and take our profit out of two additional worlds and a bunch of pointy-stick research. It honestly shouldn't take much longer than maybe twenty turns, and then we can go into full bore research from a stronger base. Plus honestly a good chunk of the delay will be fleet transit time, we can start research while waiting on our fleets to travel.

Anyway, there's at least 10 hours before my first window to play, so plenty of time for people to weigh in.

[haphazard1]

Sorry about the screw up with the weapons tech. I feel I am really dragging the team down. The rest of you would be winning easily otherwise.

Our border world with the Meklar has 7 (or was it 8?) bases. I stopped building more to add factories when IRC4 came in, but we can certainly build more there.

I don't remember exactly how many of the fusion bombers we had parked at Palladia. Somewhere around 50-60, I think?

I am pretty sure wiping out a race's final planet causes you to take a diplo hit; it even gets annouced on GNN. But I am not sure how big that hit is.

I have seen in previous games that sometimes a race will declare war or otherwise complain diplomatically, and you get told that you were framed (although not by who). Could that have happened with the birds, since it did not make any mention of being framed? Or did something else happen?

Going after the birds' closer world sounds good to me -- we could certainly use the planet and any tech we could take from it. And removing their closer world would make it much harder for them to reach most of our worlds, although the birds do have their usual excellent propulsion tech and good range.

[Ianus]

Don't worry about the research snafu haphazard! I'm the one who took Ion Rifle in the first place.  Knowing what we know now about the tree that was the wrong decision, but at the time it seemed right to me.  That happens sometimes, and pausing before getting Hard Beam I think was probably the right decision as I at least find Hard Beam to be a rather weak weapon for this point in the tree and I almost never use it.  Don't feel bad! 
I'm attaching the text documents that I use to check on specific techs.  The one thing that they are lacking is any information about what level each tech is and which rung of the tech ladder each tech occupies.  If anyone had the ability to break them up by rung that would be invaluable, but I haven't been able to do that.
It appears that I can only attach 5 files to a post, so I'll post Weapons in a separate post.

[Mardoc]

Sorry about the screw up with the weapons tech. I feel I am really dragging the team down. The rest of you would be winning easily otherwise.

I feel like you're consistently exaggerating the scale of your mistakes   .  I'd honestly rate your turnsets as about a B+; not perfect, room for improvement, but certainly not failure.

For example, the Bulrathi would have been repelled by a single missile base if you'd built it before the colony ship showed up, instead of me needing to add on the laser fighters.  But...the laser fighters weren't a huge investment, and they did have some other uses, and it did cost the Bulrathi 54 million pop...hardly a disaster.

Same thing here.  Maybe we would have totally skipped neutron blaster, but as it is we'll get some use from it anyway.  If we happen to be missing later beams, maybe we'd have come back for this one; it's certainly serviceable and we couldn't get by with lasers forever.

I do think you made the right call on Battle Computer V and on the way you handled the arrival of Robotic Controls IV.  There's rarely anything more urgent than building factories; certainly nothing you reported qualifies as more urgent.

Our border world with the Meklar has 7 (or was it 8?) bases. I stopped building more to add factories when IRC4 came in, but we can certainly build more there.

Yeah, I'm only planning to add bases here because the Meklar are so scary. Edit: and after the factories finish. Fortunately they don't appear to have any bombs, so missile bases might be able to handle some of their ships; but with their engine tech and production, this is a front where I don't expect to have a usable warning time like we've had with the western neighbors.

I don't remember exactly how many of the fusion bombers we had parked at Palladia. Somewhere around 50-60, I think?

Hmm, that's more than I expected.  Maybe I could charge straight for Phantos and conquer it before they replace the fleet they're about to use up on our Darrian missile bases.

I am pretty sure wiping out a race's final planet causes you to take a diplo hit; it even gets annouced on GNN. But I am not sure how big that hit is.

I have seen in previous games that sometimes a race will declare war or otherwise complain diplomatically, and you get told that you were framed (although not by who). Could that have happened with the birds, since it did not make any mention of being framed? Or did something else happen?

Don't know either of these, waiting for others to weigh in.

Going after the birds' closer world sounds good to me -- we could certainly use the planet and any tech we could take from it. And removing their closer world would make it much harder for them to reach most of our worlds, although the birds do have their usual excellent propulsion tech and good range.

Yeah, the only question here is whether it's worth the opportunity cost, really.  Would need to build at least enough fleet to hold the place until we get missile bases established, and ship/regrow enough troops to kill all the birdies, instead of spending those BC's on tech.  I obviously think it is, but maybe the experts will have a different view.

[Ianus]

Here is the list of Weapons tech.
I got all of these descriptions from the attached MoO FAQ which has existed online in one form or another for almost as long as MoO has.  It was compiled long ago and contains LOTS of statistical data about ships required to crack bases, take Orion, etc.  Its the next best thing to the Strategy Guide.