Rebalancing Civ4: RtR Mod

[GrafvMonteDisco]

Another suggestion I thought of would be giving civs that start with hunting a scout AND a warrior to make these civs a little bit more appealing and compensate for a usually useless starting tech.

[Cyneheard]

Another suggestion I thought of would be giving civs that start with hunting a scout AND a warrior to make these civs a little bit more appealing and compensate for a usually useless starting tech.

That's a HUGE buff to those civs. A free scout = large boost, that's 15h for free that you can spend on scouting, which is incredibly valuable in an MP game. Depending on the map size, scout start can be better than a warrior scout.

[GrafvMonteDisco]

But I think having a useless tech makes up for that really good. having a little bit more mapinfo is something which isn't really that important since scouting with a warrior you have around gives more than enough intel to set up your first cities. Making contact with other civs works faster for hunting civs though but they are suppoesed to do that anyway.

The other option would be to eliminate hunting as a starting tech altogether and give them other techs. e.g. agri mining is still only possible for china.

[Shoot the Moon]

But I think having a useless tech makes up for that really good. having a little bit more mapinfo is something which isn't really that important since scouting with a warrior you have around gives more than enough intel to set up your first cities. Making contact with other civs works faster for hunting civs though but they are suppoesed to do that anyway.

The other option would be to eliminate hunting as a starting tech altogether and give them other techs. e.g. agri mining is still only possible for china.

Hunting is a more useful starting tech than fishing in many circumstances (and arguably myst if you don't want to go for an early religion). I don't agree that we need to change the effects of the starting techs, as there isn't a clear best or worst tech in all circumstances.

[GrafvMonteDisco]

If you start with hunting myst you can be sure that your start will be slower than starting with agri wheel or mining imo

[fire&ice]

Is there even a civ that starts with both hunting and myst. Besides he would have made the choice for religion and oracle mostlikly. So the only debate on start techs in how you want to play the initial turns.

[GrafvMonteDisco]

aztec and holy rome on top off my head and if they decide to go for a religion they it is very risky because they can't improve their land with workers at all.

[fire&ice]

Its not my point that it is a flawless opening. my point was just that there is a fesable opening when working with hunting, and myst as starting techs.

IMO there is no perfect starting moves.

[GrafvMonteDisco]

My point is that starting techs matter a lot in deciding for a civ and I think it would add i little more variety if they would be improved for some civs.

Perfect example is china. It has very good starting techs but both their UU and UB aren't really that useful. Still you see it a lot in multiplayer games on RB because it helps the start and getting the snowball rolling.

[Cyneheard]

And it depends a lot on your start.

If you start with deer, Hunting is better than Agriculture.

No, starting techs are too complicated to re-do. They're too central in too many ways, and players do pay attention to starting techs, but the Aztecs and HRE still get chosen in games (HRE more so, of course), so I don't think it's too bad of a problem. Not compared to the never-chosen America and Germany.